Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[StormFinch]

Actually, they may not be able to. This may need to be decided in a Court of law, however there is a Good case for FDA over Reach even within the structure of Government which may effect change in FDA action. Challenges to Validity are being made by agencies charged with oversight.

The FDA has attempted to build a wall of Public Protection through Propaganda Campaigns Defrauding the Public with Misinformation and Falsified data(cherry picking) This thin Egg Shell of protection is already starting to Crack.

Never before in the history of this country have the people had the ability to become informed and have the Lies exposed as rapidly as today. Social media has Stormed the attention of Just Causes at moments notice.

This is the time for some with the skills to put a plan into action.

If Vapor Products are allowed Forced to remain DEEMED as tobacco Products(which they clearly are NOT) they Will Forever be Demonized as tobacco that is the Cause of XXX Millions of Deaths, Cost XXXXX Millions in Health care Expenses, and Addict our Children to Smoking.

Every Effort must be made, through LAW to Separate Vapor Products From Tobacco Products, regardless of BT involvement in VP development and sales.

I do not Support Smoking or Whole Tobacco use and I'll be Damned if I will allow myself to be Arbitrarily thrown under the bus with them. However like any Good Preacher would do with Sinners, I'll Gladly take their contributions to a Just cause.
If the American Lung Association Can do it(big Pharma) why can't we.

* Shortly after finding Vaping and ECF I said, and have continued to say

Naming it an E-cigarette was the Stupidest thing that could have been done!

I understand the Promotional purpose but look at the Condemnation that has followed.

I have to disagree on the naming. It really doesn't matter what the technology was called, Pharma still would have had a fit because it has nicotine in it. And like momma, when Pharma ain't happy "public health" ain't happy. As far as Pharma is concerned, nicotine without tobacco is their product, and we're poaching on their territory. The only thing the name e-cigarette did was allow individuals to find it and those people to become a movement, rather than the smaller niche market that calling it something unrelated would have created.

 

[Bronze]

Post 6000

 

[StormFinch]

How does Government win when people object?

PEOPLE LOSE INTEREST!!!

Why is it I am the only one that has Slammed the FDA on their PUBLIC Facebook page since Early May?





Guess I should start looking for Black Helicopters

You're not. Pay close attention to the comments on all their posts. They've hidden the main announcement thread somewhere in a corner, but the natives are restless.

They're also getting constant badgering on Twitter.

 

[nicnik]

That would be somewhat better, but still not a good way to do it.

The contradiction would be avoided, but the absurdity would remain.

 

[LoriP1702]

Post 6000

Somehow it seems like it should be more than that.

 

[lauragal]

This One Letter Can Save Our Entire Industry

The problem I have with a lot of these letters that I've been reading from us to various reps, etc. is that we are all saying that we could GO BACK TO SMOKING if these regs were to stand. Don't you think that's exactly what they want us to do?? I'm sure they are saying "YES!!!! and "GOOD" - BP, BT, and FDA WANT us to go back. Of course the FDA SAYS they are looking out for us regarding safety and health, etc., but we all know they are not.

I think we should say that we would have to resort to the BM, which is inevitable. They can never control that. It will happen if these regs stand. Where there is a will, there is a way. If there is a demand, there will be a supply.

 

[Antwoord]

The wording in the deeming regs reminds me of cavemen. "FDA disagrees." Woman cook food ~grunt~. Can't we just get the whole thing thrown out for not including "The"? I mean who knows who they are actually referring to? It could be the Farts and Dorks Association. Even if they mentioned it in their definitions it is still crude. They should be banned for bad taste and laziness. If they are going to oppress me the least they could do is include some flair. What an ugly piece of garbage.

Oh yeah, what the heck are we supposed to do? What's going on with CASAA? Is ECF the best place for information regarding what to do? If it isn't then why isn't it? It is only on weekends that I feel I have enough strength/concern for people other than myself to start screaming/typing and I need more banners, calls to action, artists depicting superheroes punching each other and screaming, "YOU CHOSE WRONG, ANDY!!!"

I'm so depressed. Why can't we curse here? This is a time for cursing. A month ago I was made a board member in my cousins company and was to make juice for him. He is an Afghanistan/Iraq war veteran and wanted to open a hukah bar that utilized vapor instead of tobacco. After I talked to him about the FDA regs he went back into the VA for PTSD. I'm not sure if the FDA regs had much to do with it, but still. It's all over. In two years of making juice I could have paid off half of my student loans. I could have joined the Peace Corps and done something with my life that actually meant something to me. I could have been free again, but it is back to a god forsaken hell of a life working 6-7 days a week most of the time. People like me don't have much energy or time. I need the banners, calls to action, etc.

 

[LoriP1702]

The wording in the deeming regs reminds me of cavemen. "FDA disagrees." Woman cook food ~grunt~. Can't we just get the whole thing thrown out for not including "The"? I mean who knows who they are actually referring to? It could be the Farts and Dorks Association. Even if they mentioned it in their definitions it is still crude. They should be banned for bad taste and laziness. If they are going to oppress me the least they could do is include some flair. What an ugly piece of garbage.

Oh yeah, what the heck are we supposed to do? What's going on with CASAA? Is ECF the best place for information regarding what to do? If it isn't then why isn't it? It is only on weekends that I feel I have enough strength/concern for people other than myself to start screaming/typing and I need more banners, calls to action, artists depicting superheroes punching each other and screaming, "YOU CHOSE WRONG, ANDY!!!"

I'm so depressed. Why can't we curse here? This is a time for cursing. A month ago I was made a board member in my cousins company and was to make juice for him. He is an Afghanistan/Iraq war veteran and wanted to open a hukah bar that utilized vapor instead of tobacco. After I talked to him about the FDA regs he went back into the VA for PTSD. I'm not sure if the FDA regs had much to do with it, but still. It's all over. In two years of making juice I could have paid off half of my student loans. I could have joined the Peace Corps and done something with my life that actually meant something to me. I could have been free again, but it is back to a god forsaken hell of a life working 6-7 days a week most of the time. People like me don't have much energy or time. I need the banners, calls to action, etc.

What the FDA has done is just sooooooo wrong, on soooooooo many levels, and is touching so many lives!!
(((HUGS)))

Prayers going up for you and your cousin!!

 

[LoriP1702]

Honestly folks, I just cannot wrap my head around the fall out of all this if the efforts to save vaping don't come through.
So very sad, for so many!!

 

[Antwoord]

What the FDA has done is just sooooooo wrong, on soooooooo many levels, and is touching so many lives!!
(((HUGS)))

Prayers going up for you and your cousin!!

Thank you

 

[LoriP1702]

Thank you

Just don't give up, especially on your dreams.

 

[StormFinch]

The problem I have with a lot of these letters that I've been reading from us to various reps, etc. is that we are all saying that we could GO BACK TO SMOKING if these regs were to stand. Don't you think that's exactly what they want us to do?? I'm sure they are saying "YES!!!! and "GOOD" - BP, BT, and FDA WANT us to go back. Of course the FDA SAYS they are looking out for us regarding safety and health, etc., but we all know they are not.

I think we should say that we would have to resort to the BM, which is inevitable. They can never control that. It will happen if these regs stand. Where there is a will, there is a way. If there is a demand, there will be a supply.

Not that the FDA isn't already aware of the bm aspect, but I don't think anyone wants to attract any more attention to it.

Besides, to anyone not in the pocket of BT and BP, saying that you're going to kill yourself slowly if they don't straighten things up sounds all horrid and threatening.

 

[The Ocelot]

Basically what I said in my post except the crazy part - which I've already allowed for

See my above note - it likely stems from that but there may be more.

I went back and read the fine print from the 2006 page. It's tiny. "This page contains group ratings from independent policy groups. Each group determines their own rating system."

It's a moot point anyway, Heller isn't listed as a participant in the 2006 survey.

I hope you don't take offense to me belaboring points. I have no problem being wrong, but I get very wound up if I don't understand something.

 

[The Ocelot]

This page gives him a score of 24% (0% would be completely opposed, 100% would be completely in favor, if I'm reading it right)

Political Scorecards - Bill Stamp

It appears that the ratings on these sites are the result of analyzing legislators' voting records and statements, so I'm not surprised there are different numbers. In any case, I want there to be 100% separation of church and state.

 

[lauragal]

Not that the FDA isn't already aware of the bm aspect, but I don't think anyone wants to attract any more attention to it.

Besides, to anyone not in the pocket of BT and BP, saying that you're going to kill yourself slowly if they don't straighten things up sounds all horrid and threatening.

True - it's just that every time I see someone writing that they will go back to smoking makes me cringe!

 

[classwife]

The problem I have with a lot of these letters that I've been reading from us to various reps, etc. is that we are all saying that we could GO BACK TO SMOKING if these regs were to stand. Don't you think that's exactly what they want us to do?? I'm sure they are saying "YES!!!! and "GOOD" - BP, BT, and FDA WANT us to go back. Of course the FDA SAYS they are looking out for us regarding safety and health, etc., but we all know they are not.

I agree here.
I will not buy cigarettes or get my nicotine from BT or BP.
They will not get any more money from me.


NOT ANOTHER DIME !

 

[Spazmelda]

I usually make a point of saying in my letters and emails that I am fine. I am stocked up. It is all the other smokers who will be hurt. I try to say it a little more eloquently, but that's the gist. I never say _I_ will go back to smoking, but the sad fact is that many probably will. People that aren't as far along and don't know to stock up, or aren't willing/able to go black market. I never mention that I would be willing to go to the black market in letters because I don't want to get on a list, lol. I do mention it will foster a black market though.

 

[The Ocelot]

I'm so bummed! It snowed today, so now I won't get my new goat until Sunday. I was looking forward to a complete distraction from the FDA.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I agree here.
I will not buy cigarettes or get my nicotine from BT or BP.
They will not get any more money from me.


NOT ANOTHER DIME !

Hence why I said on the survey that I'd rather go to the black market. Not even giving those people so much as a glance in the future.

I'm so bummed! It snowed today, so now I won't get my new goat until Sunday. I was looking forward to a complete distraction from the FDA.

New goat, yay! Awesome.

 

[frizzy_tyger]

Tell me you're kidding! I didn't bother with stuff dealing with combustible tobacco, so I had no idea. That's truly ridiculous. Can you imagine drawing up and filing an FDA approval application for a friggin' pipe? Explain what effect this pipe design will have on overall public health and back it up with detailed scientific data. LOL

Unfortunately not kidding. Other crazy things that stuck out as being ridiculous to regulate were hookahs, plastic sleeves for ciggars, and tins for pipe tobacco. There are probably 100 other ridiculous things regulated. It's all very ridiculous.