Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[The Ocelot]

I sent an email to Sen. Ron Johnson thanking him for his letter to the FDA. I also submitted the following message to the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs. (I purposely focused on the job angle.)

Dear Senators,

I applaud Sen. Johnson's letter to the FDA regarding the deeming regulations of tobacco products and urge all of you to question if the FDA's egregious overstep is really in the public's best interest.

When congress gave the FDA authority to regulate tobacco I'm sure they did not envision that authority would extend to creating a Catch-22 PMTA system that would shut down thousands of small businesses and put hundreds of thousands of citizens out of jobs. Under the regulations anything even remotely connected to vaping can be deemed a "tobacco product," even if it contains no tobacco, or, in fact, any organic material. It's like deeming a glass an alcohol product because there is wine in it.

America needs jobs. America needs to support small businesses in their efforts to innovate. An application system so expensive and so complex that only Big Tobacco companies have the funds to try to be approved ("try" as in there is no guarantee even they will be successful) is detrimental to our economy.

I know you are all busy and it may be too much to ask, but I beg at least one of you to watch this video about ProVape, the largest US manufacturer of vaping hardware devices. That's right, "Hardware." They make steel battery tubes and boxes, that contain no plant matter whatsoever. Despite that, according to the regulations they are a tobacco product manufacturer. ProVape has worked very hard to become the type of small business America should be proud of, but now they can't afford to stay in business:



I'm a 57-year-old constituent who has voted in every election since I was 18. I am also an ex-smoker. After 40 years of smoking, I have been tobacco free for almost 4 years by vaping. I will vote for candidates who support tobacco harm reduction, not for those who would block a path to health for millions of people in a misguided attempt to "Protect the Children."

Thank you in advance for having common sense.

 

[zoiDman]

That's part of the problem with PMTAs.... one never knows whether they'll be accepted. Whether you are the only ones who can afford them or not. It may very well be that the tobacco companies know their market (as Bob Chill says) and they don't care about the other market OR that they will address that in due time. I know that doesn't go with the "The FDA and BT are in bed together" view - but I've never thought that to be the case, as you may know, if you've been paying attention.

If you read all the comments and responses in the deeming, the FDA never gave in to any comments about 'our science' and came back with their science to dispute any supposed (to them) benefits. And yet, part of what vendors will have to provide is some of the science in the comments. Along with all the other attempts to "prove a negative" that the applications demand. I don't see much hope (along with the past track record) of any PMTAs making it through, whether from vape companies or BT.

For all the millions that might be spent on PMTAs where there is absolutely no guarantee of any being accepted - perhaps that money would be better channeled to defeat anti-vaping candidates, and/or supporting pro-vape candidates.

JMO.

But I don't think a Chip Enabled Closed System e-Cigarette will have any problems getting thru the PMTA Application process. Because it is about the Highest you can set the Bar. Short of an e-Cigarette that Doesn't emit Vapor.

And R.J. Reynolds just happens to have one in the VUSE.

So I don't think someone like R.J. Reynolds is worried about having a Entry in the e-Cigarette Market.

And Given the Choice of being able to go with something like the VUSE in the US Market where that Class of e-Cigarette is about All that can receive PMTA's, verses having Competition from the All Sides because a Grandfather date allowed just about anyone to Compete, I think it is a No Brainer for BT.

Go with the VUSE and let Anyone Else who wants to Play have to Pay for a PMTA.

When I hear Talk that BT is for having a GF Date of Today, I kinda Laugh. And here these words from an old Genesis song...

"In season, out of season
What's the difference when you don't know the reason?
In one Band Bread, the Other a Stone.
The Hunter enters the forest.
All are not huntsmen who can blow the huntsman's horn
By the look of this one you've not got much to fear.

Here I am, I'm very fierce and frightening
Come to match my skill to yours.
(Ha!)
Now Listen Here, Listen to Me, Don't you run away now
I am a Friend, I'd really like to play with you.
Making noises my little furry friend would make
I'll Trick Him, then I'll Kick him into my Sack.

You better watch out... You better watch out."

"Squonk", Genesis - Trick of the Tale, 1976

 

[crxess]

The majority rules.

Problem being this is the False Perception the FDA is attempting to display.
There has bee no Truth to their Deeming or in any Public Majority Vote to Regulate. Simply an Agency Running amuck for 6 years and finally Instituting summery Judgment.

This is a Last minute attempt to further oppress the people before this Administration is swept from existence.

One can only hope the next will have even the slightest bit more respect for the rights of the people to be included in those actions which effect their lives.

 

[budynbuick]

Wonder what the Youtube hardware reviewers will do.

I know. That one fella (no names)mentioned that fact looked like he didn't know whether to .... or go blind! He looked like he would swallow his head

 

[The Ocelot]

It truly is boggling.

I hereby deem that the FDA shall henceforth be "The Ministry of Health".

(for those who skipped that year in high school:
The Ministry of Peace is in charge of war. Ministry of Love is in charge of torturing people. The Ministry of Truth disseminates all the lies, etc.)

I beat you to that. Many pages back I deeming them The Ministry of Public Protection and since when the public is protected they feel safe and happy, it will be under the authority of The Ministry of Happiness.

 

[Kent C]

But I don't think a Chip Enabled Closed System e-Cigarette will have any problems getting thru the PMTA Application process.

I disagree. The FDA, TC, THR all hate RJR. And Zeller's comments about 'this is just the beginning' tells me he doesn't want any vape product on the market. The FDA spent millions of dollars for an anti-vape agenda with their scientists making vaping worse than smoking. Why would they let one vape product, that they know would likely dominate the general retail market and be, as Zeller has said - a major health problem for the 'net population'? It goes against everything he's worked for and believes in.

Going back to our "Deal" :- )

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

That is the problem. We have been turned from a Constitutional Republic into a majority rule democracy. democracy is working just like it is supposed to. The majority rules. Democracy was anathema to the founders. They said that is the ideology we would have to guard against the most. it has been around for ever. Always ends in tyranny.

Thanks for posting this....I've been meaning to say something like this, but all the other FDA insaneness has gathered most of my attention.
"and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
No where does it say Democracy.

 

[Kent C]

No where does it say Democracy

Nor in the Constitution....

 

[classwife]

Problem being this is the False Perception the FDA is attempting to display.
There has bee no Truth to their Deeming or in any Public Majority Vote to Regulate. Simply an Agency Running amuck for 6 years and finally Instituting summery Judgment.

This is a Last minute attempt to further oppress the people before this Administration is swept from existence.

One can only hope the next will have even the slightest bit more respect for the rights of the people to be included in those actions which effect their lives.

The False Data Administration

 

[crxess]

I disagree. The FDA, TC, THR all hate RJR. And Zeller's comments about 'this is just the beginning' tells me he doesn't want any vape product on the market. The FDA spent millions of dollars for an anti-vape agenda with their scientists making vaping worse than smoking. Why would they let one vape product, that they know would likely dominate the general retail market and be, as Zeller has said - a major health problem for the 'net population'? It goes against everything he's worked for and believes in.

Going back to our "Deal" :- )

That in a nutshell is a Serious problem we have with Zeller. He is an ANTZ in Charge, with a mentality of Nothing less than Breathing Unmodified Air is Acceptable.
His BLIND Drive, just like GLANTZ, forces the invisibility of a Viable answer to a HUGE part of his issue - Combustible Tobacco.

Freakin Ijjits

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Nor in the Constitution....

Exactly. When one goes into the armed services, or takes a civil servant job, or is sworn into office, they pledge to uphold the Constitution. PERIOD. Not any one person, agency, president ,office or party. And to defend it even with your life, if called for.

 

[budynbuick]

[QUOTE="Rossum, post: 17811725, [/QUOTE]
Hey FDA: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed food trough wipers! Your mother was a prohibitionist and your father smelt of Anslinger! I blow clouds in your general direction.

AND I WILL DO IT A SECOND TIME!!!

 

[Kent C]

That in a nutshell is a Serious problem we have with Zeller. He is an ANTZ in Charge, with a mentality of Nothing less than Breathing Unmodified Air is Acceptable.
His BLIND Drive, just like GLANTZ, forces the invisibility of a Viable answer to a HUGE part of his issue - Combustible Tobacco.

Freakin Ijjits

I agree.

In case you didn't see this - where people were thinking Zeller was (might be) 'reasonable'....

Did Mitch Zeller Just Show His True Colors?

 

[zoiDman]

I disagree. The FDA, TC, THR all hate RJR. And Zeller's comments about 'this is just the beginning' tells me he doesn't want any vape product on the market. The FDA spent millions of dollars for an anti-vape agenda with their scientists making vaping worse than smoking. Why would they let one vape product, that they know would likely dominate the general retail market and be, as Zeller has said - a major health problem for the 'net population'? It goes against everything he's worked for and believes in.

Going back to our "Deal" :- )

Oh but Kent... That's the Beauty of it. Everyone Hates RJ Reynolds.

If I was on the Board, I would throw a 100K or Two at a Bill/Amendment I didn't want to pass. Just to watch Boxer froth at the Mouth and Scream, "We are Never going to Allow this BT Sponsored Bill to Pass".

LOL

Remember. A Class of e-Cigarettes Has to be FDA Approved. Because if the FDA Didn't Approve something, then they Would be enacting a Ban. And that would be Problematic. Because the FSPTA specifically Forbids the FDA from doing that.

If the VUSE can't receive a PMTA Approval, then Nothing Can. How could Anyone make it more of an Abortion than it Already is?

 

[classwife]

That in a nutshell is a Serious problem we have with Zeller. He is an ANTZ in Charge, with a mentality of Nothing less than Breathing Unmodified Air is Acceptable.
His BLIND Drive, just like GLANTZ, forces the invisibility of a Viable answer to a HUGE part of his issue - Combustible Tobacco.

Freakin Ijjits

Attention Mr.Zeller and all that want to get
rid of e-cigarettes...

Do you actually not have ANY
loved ones that smoke ?
Loved ones that are going to DIE
from cigarette related issues.
Would you REALLY not offer them
this replacement for smoking cigarettes
to save their lives ?

 

[zoiDman]

The False Data Administration

Sorry ENAUD, but I think why have a New Winner for Best Post in Thread.

 

[budynbuick]

How do you then, as an Internet Seller, Check my Photo ID before you take my Money?

Note: Keyword. Before

National ID card.

 

[Rossum]

Attention Mr.Zeller and all that want to get rid of e-cigarettes...?
Do you actually not have ANY loved ones that smoke ?
Loved ones that are going to DIE from cigarette related issues.
Would you REALLY not offer them this replacement for smoking cigarettes to save their lives ?

Correct -- because they could not possibly love anyone who's uncouth enough to smoke (or vape for that matter).

 

[Kent C]

Because if the FDA Didn't Approve something, then they Would be enacting a Ban. And that would be Problematic. Because the FSPTA specifically Forbids the FDA from doing that.

Not really. Not approving something isn't banning it. It's just following protocol. Besides they don't worry about what some may call a "ban", just like they don't worry about calling no-nic juice a "tobacco product".

I have no more to say to you on this subject. Disagree to disagree. I don't use the other phrase. lol

 

[zoiDman]

Not really. Not approving something isn't banning it. It's just following protocol. Besides they don't worry about what some may call a "ban", just like they don't worry about calling no-nic juice a "tobacco product".

I have no more to say to you on this subject. Disagree to disagree. I don't use the other phrase. lol

Yeah... But Not Approving Anything is a Ban.

Face it. The VUSE or a VUSE-a-Like is going to Receive PMTA Approval.