Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[The Ocelot]

Yes, I agree, but my post was meant to say if the FDA had actually done a little bit of work and researched this type of data, they wouldn't have to look very far to answer those types of questions.
Their total lack of responsibility for their justifications is just appalling.

(hiccup) I completely agree, but what motivation would they have to research the data? It seems pretty clear they already knew what they wanted to find.

 

[Simply Red]

​

 

[ZeroedIn]

I blame you.

Many of these manufacturers, however, are believed to be smaller, informal participants in this market; in describing the current landscape in the ENDS industry, an industry survey respondent wrote, “Too many companies are making e-liquid in their kitchens/bathrooms,” (Herzog et al., 2014a).

This quote (actually part of a quote) is an outlandish example of cherry picking. Not only is it inflammatory and irrelevant, it's presented as if it was part of an accredited study. &)((%&()(^!! It's from an Equity Survey compiled by Bonnie Herzog for Wells Fargo Securities. She's an industry analyst who looks at market trends for investors!

That specific "quote" was taken from a survey on the increasing market trend of vapor/tank (open) systems. You have to look hard to find the comment among the others...that actually have relevant information.
http://www.vaporworldexpo.com/PDFs/Tobacco_Talk_Vapors_Tanks_ March 2014.pdf

It seems criminal the FDA could pull something that misleading out of the blue. Especially when they attribute it to Ms. Herzog, who is against the regulations. She just looks at the market, btw, she advises big tobacco too. The most recent quote I found for her was in the same article in which the Reynolds reps were praising the new regs:

“Our main concern is that these final deeming regulations could dramatically slow industry growth by disincentivizing consumer conversion from combustible cigarettes,” said Bonnie Herzog, an analyst with Wells Fargo Securities. “This would ultimately have a net negative impact on public health, which is clearly in direct opposition to the FDA’s goal.”

Yep, its all my fault.

 

[Oliver]

No worries, bro.

It wouldn't have mattered if you had been able to show that there were over 150,000 domestic vape shops, supporting an average of 15 full-time employees making $50k per year each.

The FDA was going to structure the metrics, therefore crafting the statistics, to meet the goal of their narrative. Facts are irrelevant to the self-righteous.

Well, true, to an extent. But what they're really doing is building a case for when the lawsuits come: "this is what we took to be evidence. How else could we have measured it if no-one provided us actual names of businesses affected?"

 

[Buckeyevapen]

​

Amen to that Red. For any members here who have/are serving I thank you. For any who have family who have/are served I thank you.

 

[The Ocelot]

Well, true, to an extent. But what they're really doing is building a case for when the lawsuits come: "this is what we took to be evidence. How else could we have measured it if no-one provided us actual names of businesses affected?"

Stand up and represent may be all that people have left. For some it's a business, for others it's a mission.

ETA: How much do I hate them? Let me count the ways...

 

[The Ocelot]

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

(hiccup) I completely agree, but what motivation would they have to research the data? It seems pretty clear they already knew what they wanted to find.

I hope this comes back to bite them where the sun don't shine.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Well, true, to an extent. But what they're really doing is building a case for when the lawsuits come: "this is what we took to be evidence. How else could we have measured it if no-one provided us actual names of businesses affected?"

Stand up and represent may be all what people have left. For some it's a business, for others it's mission.

ETA: How much do I hate them? Let me count the ways...

I agree that is what they are doing but information as they 'quoted the comments they said they accumulated' pointed them closer to the true facts. How were these companies suppose to let the FDA know when the industry wasn't under a drug component and/or wasn't 'deemed' to be under the tobacco laws at the time some of these businesses started?
This is why I posted about the companies starting their business have to file income tax returns. And when you start a company in any state, you are given a FED ID TAX # unless you are 'sole proprietor' and then you use your own ssn. And don't get me started on what forms the state requires and the licensing, etc.
My point, again, with very little effort, they could have accumulated and verified the information given in the comments they read from the public. They could not have been contacted by these companies(unless on a volunteer basis) because there was not a requirement to do so. Catch 22.
Hopefully a judge will see right through this.

 

[LoriP1702]

I would be curious to know just how much all of this FDA nonsense has cost us (to date), as taxpayers.

It's just absolutely insane the amount of money that gets spent on incredibly stupid things in this country.

 

[classwife]

I would be curious to know just how much all of this FDA nonsense has cost us (to date), as taxpayers.

It's just absolutely insane the amount of money that gets spent on incredibly stupid things in this country.

Government waste is sickening.

 

[Bronze]

I really don't think the FDA is "evil" although some of the leadership definitely is. I'd say the agency as a whole is misguided. Give people this great mission, protect the public health, and they will do what people will do and distort that because it never goes far enough. Then things become an organism unto themselves and it just feeds and feeds, and if you're an employee you either have to go along with it, or you get swallowed up. They need a course correction, and it will not come from within.

I had brought up a similar point a few weeks ago on this thread. People go to Washington thinking they have to do something when perhaps the best thing to do is nothing. And every time we send another person to Washington they feel the need to leave their mark and our government just gets bigger and bigger and more and more intrusive.

 

[LoriP1702]

Government waste is sickening.

Yes, it sure is.

 

[LoriP1702]

...I'm so mad right now I can't even type.

 

[The Ocelot]

I suggest everyone get a pet goat. They are intelligent, amusing and very good at making you forget about the FDA.

 

[beckdg]

I hope this comes back to bite them where the sun don't shine.

It won't.

FDA and big industries it supports have been successfully pulling these tactics since at least the early 60's.

Either they win, they win uncontested or they come close enough to losing to change their approach of the same tactics (as represented in the 2009 battle that got us here).

Please watch the movie. (Everyone)

Frederick J. Stare Ph.D., M.D. Professor of Nutrition and Chairman

Tapatyped

 

[Bronze]

Hmmmm, I have a hummingbird with a double chin at the feeder. The little fella has been pigging out.

 

[The Ocelot]

Hmmmm, I have a hummingbird with a double chin at the feeder. The little fella has been pigging out.

Pix?

 

[beckdg]

I suggest everyone get a pet goat. They are intelligent, amusing and very good at making you forget about the FDA.

Until the FDA confiscates them and euthanizes them for mad COW disease.

Yes... there are documented cases.

Tapatyped

 

[Bronze]

Pix?

I wish. I'll try throughout the day. The feeder is just a foot on the other side of the kitchen window so I should have a decent chance. Whether I can get that same hummingbird again is another question. There are a mess of different ones and they're always fighting.