Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

Lessifer

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I have to think about that tbh. I think of it as a decision children are not mature enough to make on their own. I lean toward it being something that parents should buy for their kids, but i will think about your argument.:)
That's about the best response I could ask for :)

Take a look at what's in a starbuck's frappuccino, we let "kids" make potentially bad decisions all the time.
 

KODIAK (TM)

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A lawsuit was filed by Nicopure. The injunction would follow. Whether the lawsuit provides remedy is something else but that an injunction will be issued is certain.
Why is an injunction a certainty? I think you have to ask for it and Nicopure to my knowledge hasn't. And a trial my not happen for years.

Listen here starting at about 27:40. While Cynthia (Executive Director of SFATA) is no attorney, she explains it well.
 

r77r7r

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    I'll tell you, common folk like me have stood by the last few years and signed petitions and such and supported organizations and that has ended in the worst case results. Now, you'll be seeing us taking action in ways that may not be liked, but it's all we have left. See ya on the streets...
     
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    crxess

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    Like I said in another Thread, Mr. Zeller isn't on my Christmas Card list. But directing All Anger/Blame on Mr. Zeller is like cutting the leaves off a Weed in the Garden. It Doesn't do Anything. Because the Problem/Cause still remains. You have to Pull a weed out Roots and All.
    Commander in Chief to Start :glare:, but I have no problem taking up my sword against any of them. Where do I sign on? o_O

    Sorry, but reading Califf's Credentials on tobacco - IMO, he is likely looking to Zeller for guidance. 1yr in FDA Tobacco Experience with Science not LAW Background.
    Previously, Dr. Califf served as the FDA’s Deputy Commissioner for Medical Products and Tobacco from February 2015 until his appointment as commissioner in February 2016.
    Prior to joining the FDA, Dr. Califf was a professor of medicine and vice chancellor for clinical and transnational research at Duke University.

    Apology for Delay - had to beat a Riding mower into submission :D

    Sylvia Mary Mathews Burwell - Foundation Background, Walmart and others.
    Short Stint at OMB
    ***Feb. 2014 appointment to HHS
    HHS Stated Strategic Plan(Note dates):
    Strategic Plan FY 2014 - 2018
    Every four years, HHS updates its Strategic Plan, which describes its work to address complex, multifaceted, and evolving health and human services issues. An agency strategic plan is one of three main elements required by the Government Performance and Results Act (GPRA) of 1993 (P.L. 103-62) and the GPRA Modernization Act of 2010 (P.L. 111-352). An agency strategic plan defines its mission, goals, and the means by which it will measure its progress in addressing specific national problems over a four-year period.

    and Planning Updates per above objectives:
    For the period FY 2014—2018, HHS is publishing its Strategic Plan as a Web document, which will be updated periodically to reflect the Department’s strategies, actions, and progress toward its goals. The Web version of the Strategic Plan, rather than focusing on a static set of performance measures, provides priorities, accomplishments, and next steps that are tracked and updated frequently, reinforcing the Strategic Plan’s function as a living, vital document that serves a genuine management purpose. The Strategic Plan was last updated March 10, 2014.
    For Clarity:The Strategic Plan was last updated ***March 10, 2014.
    It Seems we have a Very Young, in terms of service experience, Groups of Head of Offices. They come before us with Great aspirations and little regard for outside opinion in opposition.

    We are in a Crossfire of OLD Congressman that just don't get it and haven't the time to investigate it, and those on a mission to prove their worth. :yawn:

    Sorry, but of all these people *I* feel the one with the most knowledge and the highest threat to Vaping is - Mitch Zeller
     

    HazyShades

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    Why is an injunction a certainty? I think you have to ask for it and Nicopure to my knowledge hasn't. And a trial my not happen for years.

    Listen here starting at about 27:40. While Cynthia (Executive Director of SFATA) is no attorney, she explains it well.
    Because that's what happens while the case is decided on.

    Here: https://tveca.com/frontpagenews/NicoPure-suit.pdf
    scroll down to the remedies sought.
    —14—
    RELIEF REQUESTED
    WHEREFORE, Nicopure asks this Court issue judgment in its favor and
    against Defendants, and to grant the following relief:
    A. Vacate and set aside the Deeming Rule;
    B. Declare that:
    i. the Deeming Rule is contrary
    to and exceeds FDA’s statutory
    authority under the Act and the FDCA;
    ii. the Deeming Rule is arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discre-
    tion, or otherwise not in accordance with law;
    iii. the Deeming Rule’s cost-benefit analysis is unlawful; and
    iv. the Deeming Rule is contrary to the First Amendment.
    C. Issue a preliminary injunction en
    joining enforcement of the Deeming
    Rule and prohibiting FDA from taking any action under the Deeming Rule pending
    resolution of this action...

    If the case is accepted for consideration
    an injunction is automatic until the case is resolved either way.
     

    Lessifer

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    I just want to clarify something. I don't expect any of the groups to actively fight against age restrictions, people aren't ready for that, the guilt by association to smoking is too strong. I just wish we would stop promoting age restrictions like they actually make sense.

    From Senator Johnson's letter to the FDA:
    1. How is the FDA’s regulation of e-cigarettes not a premature restriction on an industry given the FDA’s admission that it does not have “sufficient data” about e-cigarettes to determine the effects on the public’s health?
    That insufficient data pertains to ALL of the regulations.
     

    HazyShades

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    I'll tell you, common folk like me have stood by the last few years and signed petitions and such and supported organizations and that has ended in the worst case results. Now, you'll be seeing us taking action in ways that may not be liked, but it's all we have left. See ya on the streets...
    May I suggest that you restrain the urge...walls have ears. You don't wanna be labeled a terrorist. Your avi already qualifies you.
     
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    Lessifer

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    If the case is accepted for consideration
    an injunction is automatic until the case is resolved either way.
    I'm not arguing, because I don't know the law, but that's not what the lawyer from SeviaUSA said. He said an injunction is only granted if the judge believes there is a good chance of the suit winning, and not being granted the injunction could be detrimental to the case, as it shows the judge does not believe the case truly has merit. Or at least that's what I got out of it.
     

    HazyShades

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    I'm not arguing, because I don't know the law, but that's not what the lawyer from SeviaUSA said. He said an injunction is only granted if the judge believes there is a good chance of the suit winning, and not being granted the injunction could be detrimental to the case, as it shows the judge does not believe the case truly has merit. Or at least that's what I got out of it.
    Yea, like I said.If the case is accepted for consideration.
    It could also be considered a frivolous lawsuit and thrown out of court.
    But if it isn't then...but hey, you might be right. I'm only a process server not an attorney.
     

    Kent C

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    How staggering? If you don't have millions to gamble, don't even think of trying. You'd need to start with a law firm specializing in this sort of regulatory law. Then you'd need chemists, biochemists, epidemiologists, physicians, statisticians, a host of researchers in a variety of specialized fields, and God knows what else.

    I know it would be a bit more extensive but it seems that all the reports needed could be put into a 'form letter' like we get from Congressmen. :- ) Made available to vendors. It would take a coordinated effort - probably the biggest hurdle. But stuff like Bill G's post on smoking decreasing as ecigs increase would be part of the packet. Burnstyn's 'in the mist' study that tells how all the ANTZ studies are bogus would be included.
     

    crxess

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    IMO this lie is reaffirmed just as much by vapers as it is by anyone else.

    "Of course we support age restrictions, anyone in their right mind would."

    Completely in agreement.
    I do stand by Smoking Tobacco for Decades may present an addiction satisfied by Nicotine

    Good for you. Keep saying that when they cart you off to prison
    or the looney bin for being a vape terrorist.

    BTW, any thoughts on a march on DC..you can bring your weapons.

    I will no doubt be joining him. :yawn:

    Ouch - strong position alert!

    Why do think this is problematic?

    Problematic?....................... Catastrophic :shock:
     

    Steamix

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    I just want to clarify something. I don't expect any of the groups to actively fight against age restrictions, people aren't ready for that, the guilt by association to smoking is too strong. I just wish we would stop promoting age restrictions like they actually make sense.

    From Senator Johnson's letter to the FDA:
    1. How is the FDA’s regulation of e-cigarettes not a premature restriction on an industry given the FDA’s admission that it does not have “sufficient data” about e-cigarettes to determine the effects on the public’s health?
    That insufficient data pertains to ALL of the regulations.

    Reminds me :

    Wasn't there a deadline mentioned in the Senator's letter to the FDA ?
     

    Lessifer

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    I know it would be a bit more extensive but it seems that all the reports needed could be put into a 'form letter' like we get from Congressmen. :- ) Made available to vendors. It would take a coordinated effort - probably the biggest hurdle. But stuff like Bill G's post on smoking decreasing as ecigs increase would be part of the packet. Burnstyn's 'in the mist' study that tells how all the ANTZ studies are bogus would be included.
    You mean a "master file?"
     

    HazyShades

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    zoiDman

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    Commander in Chief to Start :glare:, but I have no problem taking up my sword against any of them. Where do I sign on? o_O
    ...

    You will get an Opportunity soon. November is just around the Corner.

    ...
    Sorry, but of all these people *I* feel the one with the most knowledge and the highest threat to Vaping is - Mitch Zeller

    Hey that's Cool. Like I said, Mr. Zeller isn't exactly on the Top of my Friends Lists.

    But there were 3 people Above Him who had the Power to step in and say...

    "Hey Mitch, Jeeze take it down a Notch. This is Regulatory Overreach. And we are hurting More People that we are Helping. And if you Don't, I Will."

    or

    "Hey Mitch, you Didn't Slam them Hard Enough. I want you to Really Put the Screws to them. OK? Because if you don't, I Will."

    And it Doesn't matter if 1 of 3 Didn't do the First, or if 1 of the 3 Did do the Second, I Blame the 3 Much More than I Blame Mr. Zeller.
     
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