Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

zoiDman

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Perhaps if they had to take 1 shovel full of Dirt out of DC for every Dollar Wasted they would get a hint.
New Capitol Residence - Apportioned N.C. Land :rolleyes:

It would create an interesting Potomac River Whirl Pool:D

Edit: Taxation would effective let China Pay the Settlement and give tobacco companies some relief (for other evil ventures)
Of course Very few Smokers ever realized WE were the ones paying the Settlement, not Big tobacco. :glare:

Yeah... I'm all for Spending Cuts before New Taxes.
 

Kent C

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wiki:
Fascism

Both “socialism” and “fascism” involve the issue of property rights. The right to property is the right of use and disposal. Observe the difference in those two theories: socialism negates private property rights altogether, and advocates “the vesting of ownership and control” in the community as a whole, i.e., in the state; fascism leaves ownership in the hands of private individuals, but transfers control of the property to the government.

Ownership without control is a contradiction in terms: it means “property,” without the right to use it or to dispose of it. It means that the citizens retain the responsibility of holding property, without any of its advantages, while the government acquires all the advantages without any of the responsibility.

In this respect, socialism is the more honest of the two theories. I say “more honest,” not “better”—because, in practice, there is no difference between them: both come from the same collectivist-statist principle, both negate individual rights and subordinate the individual to the collective, both deliver the livelihood and the lives of the citizens into the power of an omnipotent government—and the differences between them are only a matter of time, degree, and superficial detail, such as the choice of slogans by which the rulers delude their enslaved subjects.


“The New Fascism: Rule by Consensus,”
Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 202
 

DC2

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Well, they could just tax the crap out of vaping like they do everything else to make up for the loss. Much better option than killing millions of people IMHO.
I hate to say this, but they could just start taxing sugar or fat or fast food or whatever else.

Yeah, I know that is horrible, and I agree.
Damn, I hate this whole thing.

But taxing something that is truly unhealthy is better than taxing us.
And certainly far more honest.

Sin taxes suck to begin with, no matter who they are aimed at.
But a couple of pennies on a Twinkie or a box of Cocoa COPYRIGHTDMCA will add up fast.

A lot faster than taxing us UP THE WAZOO to make up for lost tobacco taxes.
But it would also bring a lot more political flak.

So yeah, they have us in their cross-hairs...
Because nobody gives a crap about us except us...

Tobacco Control is the reason we are such an easy target for them...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger
 

HazyShades

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It means that the citizens retain the responsibility of holding property, without any of its advantages, while the government acquires all the advantages without any of the responsibility.
As in the FDOT "giving" me the piece of land between my yard and the expressway that I'm responsible for the maintenance
(mowing ETC) of but I'm not allowed to put a shed or plant a tree on.
The DFOT "customer service agent (customer rather than CITIZEN)
said I could put a lawn chair there and sit while I drink a beer..I do not drink beer..

I beg to differ with you just a bit.
Socialism fools people into thinking they, the people
own the rights of production and distribution or will own (the promise they make to gain adherents) of goods
when in fact it is, in practice, the state who does.
Moreover, socialism pretends to promote and defend social justice and equality when in fact it unjustly enslaves the citizenry
and only considers as equals the elitist ruling class.

There is actually very little difference between the two, in practice.
Just my personal experience, y'all.
 
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skoony

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It's either because they were too stupid or they felt it was less cost to kill vaping than it was to enter a new market. Not sure which.
They were all set. When Obama care is fully implemented these products would all
be covered. Many policies pay for them now. Many companies offer them as cost
saving measures. Many people were trying them on their own when the over the counter
products were introduced. Then something quite unexpected happened. I do not want
to give away the rest of the movie. Hopefully there will be a few more sequels.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
 
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DC2

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As I've said before, I don't know if the FDA really had a choice in how to regulate vaping as a tobacco product, once they decided that it would be regulated as a tobacco product. The how was written into the FSPTCA.
They had a choice to NOT regulate it as a tobacco product.
 

zoiDman

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I dont know if this has been posted or not? "e-cigarettes and public health"
American Enterprise Institute Hosts Discussion | Video | C-SPAN.org

I just posted this in the Dedicated Thread for that AEI Presentation.

I finally had some times to sit down and start to listen to this AEI re-broadcast.

I can't tell you how Refreshing it was to listen to Prof. Shiffman's presentation. So much so that I just sent him a brief e-Mail expressing my Thanks.

Saul Shiffman, Ph.D. | Department of Psychology | University of Pittsburgh
 

DC2

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Life before Profits
Incredible Arrogance of Public officials!


cdc-s-frieden-blatantly-dismisses-e-cigarettes-photo-credit-hhsgov-public-domain-via-wikimedia-commons_733997.jpg
Did I recently post that I'm becoming a conspiracy theory wack job?
Connecting the Dots in the New World Order: How the system works under 'Mr Change' Obama (Er, like it always did)

Gee, it must be nice to be hand picked for government work.
I guess there is much expected of those to whom much is given.

Why do all those folks in that picture look evil?
 

cats5365

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One of the more interesting lines in the AEI video came around the 1:55 mark. Saul Shiffman was saying that Pharma was trying to peddle their smoking cessation products that were deemed safe by the FDA but the problem was consumer demand was poor...."no one wanted them"...as he put it. So he was commissioned to try and figure out ways to spark consumer demand of these smoking cessation products. He contrasted that to vaping where people are lining up with cash in hand to buy vaping products so they can quit smoking. Translation....So the FDA whines that pharma couldn't spark consumer demand for their smoking cessation products yet here we are as a (growing) vape community screaming at the top of our lungs at the vape industry to TAKE OUR MONEY!!! The vape industry has done what Pharma could not do.!! Which goes back to my earlier point/question yesterday in that why didn't pharma embrace vaping as a medicine and market it themselves? It's either because they were too stupid or they felt it was less cost to kill vaping than it was to enter a new market. Not sure which.

I think that if BP had tried to develop the vaping products, they would have been tied to similar standards as these deeming requirements and the PMTA that we are hoping to turn back. It would have been crazy expensive to invest in something that from their past experience resulted in something nobody wanted. Product improvements would happen slowly, if at all. I don't think their stockholders would have been willing to accept that kind of risk.

The vaping industry was allowed to grow and thrive without much interference from the outside. In the AEI video, they showed the progression of the product and how one guy started with an idea, and some more guys improved upon it, rinse/repeat until we have a pretty good product that was designed to meet our wishes for what we wanted/needed to satisfy our nico-demons and get off the smokes.

Unless they can change the predicate dates to 2016, and allow even a slim chance of a SE product as a basis for any improvements, I am afraid we are going to be stuck with what we have now for a very long time.

BTW, the AEI was a good video, and thank you for all that posted the links.
 

Bronze

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I think that if BP had tried to develop the vaping products, they would have been tied to similar standards as these deeming requirements and the PMTA that we are hoping to turn back. It would have been crazy expensive to invest in something that from their past experience resulted in something nobody wanted. Product improvements would happen slowly, if at all. I don't think their stockholders would have been willing to accept that kind of risk.

The vaping industry was allowed to grow and thrive without much interference from the outside. In the AEI video, they showed the progression of the product and how one guy started with an idea, and some more guys improved upon it, rinse/repeat until we have a pretty good product that was designed to meet our wishes for what we wanted/needed to satisfy our nico-demons and get off the smokes.

Unless they can change the predicate dates to 2016, and allow even a slim chance of a SE product as a basis for any improvements, I am afraid we are going to be stuck with what we have now for a very long time.

BTW, the AEI was a good video, and thank you for all that posted the links.
They would have to go through whatever processes they go through for any other medicine. Expensive to be sure.
 
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jmur

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This has been a fascinating and eye opening, thought provoking discussion. I wish more non-vapers were able to hear these points. It's led me to think of another analogy. Let's say you're walking down a dark, unfamiliar street and come to a fork in the road. On the right fork you can clearly see dozens of shadowy figures that you KNOW are just waiting to rob you, cause you bodily harm or much worse. The other fork looks quiet, but there's a sign placed there by the Government which reads: "Caution: we won't say that this road is safe for you".
You tell me, which road you gonna take??
 

Bronze

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This has been a fascinating and eye opening, thought provoking discussion. I wish more non-vapers were able to hear these points. It's led me to think of another analogy. Let's say you're walking down a dark, unfamiliar street and come to a fork in the road. On the right fork you can clearly see dozens of shadowy figures that you KNOW are just waiting to rob you, cause you bodily harm or much worse. The other fork looks quiet, but there's a sign placed there by the Government which reads: "Caution: we won't say that this road is safe for you".
You tell me, which road you gonna take??
How is beckyblue?
 

Str8vision

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“(i) Other tobacco products.—Any product not otherwise described under this section that has been determined to be a tobacco product by the Food and Drug Administration through its authorities under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act shall be taxed at a level of tax equivalent to the tax rate for cigarettes on an estimated per use basis as determined by the Secretary.”.

Text - S.1129 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Tobacco Tax and Enforcement Reform Act

Yep. The sentence you've highlighted is what people need to be aware of. -If- I remember correctly I think the European countries are considering making 1ml of juice equal to 1 pack of cigarettes for "tax" purposes. Somewhere down the road the U.S. will be making an equivalency determination for the same purpose. It's not a matter of if.... And then of course there the states who may actually beat them to the feeding trough.
 

Lessifer

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It makes no sense to tax anything vape-related like cigarettes are taxed when vaping has not been proven to cause harm.
It makes no sense to tax regulate anything vape-related like cigarettes are taxed regulated when vaping has not been proven to cause harm.
 

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