Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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Again, take off your blinders that say everyone is ATTACKING business. We all obviously WANT vape businesses to stick around, or we wouldn't be spending so much time doing what we do. No one is trying to say that it's a scientific fact that vape businesses aren't doing their part, but it is a reality that there are many businesses out there that aren't. No one is saying those businesses are bad and should go away, we're saying we want to see them doing something.
This isn't about having the money to do a PMTA, if you know you can't and that means your business is going under in two years, then do what you can to keep that from happening.
Seriously, you are an incredibly smart man but sometimes you get stuck in defensive mode and I'll bet that most people tune you out. I always show you the respect of reading your responses and considering them openly, you don't always seem to do the same.
If a vape shop doesn't know what's going on, they do have their head in the sand. If they know, and aren't at the very least informing their customers and telling them how to get involved, then they aren't doing everything they can to save their businesses. If they just want to make what they can before they have to shut down, fine, but I won't mourn their loss.
My voice can only reach so many people, and chances are they will be those who already know some of what is going on. Vape shops have the power to reach so many more. CASAA fliers cost pennies to print.
Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap!
Just recently, a vape shop owner who IS in the fight, defended himself and other vape shop owners with "We are doing everything we can to get our customers.."
I don't have a vape shop. I DO have two service related businesses. If those businesses are ever threatened by government intervention, the very LAST place I intend to go, to seek support, is my CUSTOMERS. THEY write ME checks. Now my VENDORS, THEY might be a good source of support. But really, this is what the vape shops consider "activisim". Rallying their customers ?!
Solly Cholly, FDA rules YOU, not ME. And I suspect I will be able to purchase my needs from overseas for QUITE some time, while the FDA works diligently on destroying AMERICAN businesses. They have no authority over me, and no authority over the border. Homeland Security has ALREADY weighed in on this, and they are VERY skeptical about the FDA's plans, and the effect it will have on American businesses, and consumers. I don't see Singapore style confiscation and harrassment anywhere in our near future. The FDA's powers are NOTHING compared to Homeland Security's.
Kent, you are welcome to Visit Washington county MD if you feel there are not business acting in that manor. I have been attempting to get their attention focused. It is not fun.
Honestly, several seem to take a don't ask, don't acknowledge attitude. Like, if I tell my customers they may Stockpile and go DIY. Good business strategy - NOT NOW!
Ever Customer uninformed could be THE ONE that changes a Representatives Mind. That one magic story that makes an impact on a personal level that cannot be shaken off.
Do I Believe All business are acting this way, absolutely not. Unfortunately there are an awful lot of Franchise, Quick Profit and unskilled Shop owners that are not going to be of any help. Each is keeping a chunk of Consumer Base out of the game.
Yes, that was my point ! I was being sarcastic, of course their livelihood is at stake.
I would not bother thinking even for a minute about filing a PMTA. But i would do my best to stay in business until Aug 2018, by complying with the other sections of the regs, that while difficult for the smaller vendors, are doable. And i would fight until the end, by making my customers aware and urging them to take action, by contacting my own representatives, by helping fund lawsuits to the best of my ability, and by generally not going away meekly. But what is the point to your thought experiment ?
Anecdote you say. Kind of like what the other side calls our success stories quitting smoking ? Dozens of members reporting the same thing from numerous vendors. Of course there are vendors fighting the FDA every way they can, but not nearly in high enough percentages, based not only on my own personal observation, but that of many other members, 'aware' vapeshop owners, and 'advocates'.
Anti-business bias !? really ? That's your take from all this ?
You misunderstand me. Shops probably shouldn't be asking for "support" and I definitely wouldn't be donating to shops for this cause. However, making consumers aware of what is happening and steering them to places where they can get involved on the consumer side, I definitely believe they should be doing that. The FDA may not rule me, but they can sure as
make it difficult for me to get what I want. This all affects vendors and consumers.
Please point me to this. Ron Johnson made it Clear it was the committee acting on Governmental Affairs, not Homeland Security.
I don't know if the age of the browse make a difference. Did you try watching it on youtube instead of the embedded player?
Everyone?? No one has said that. Now you're just making up your own case
I said people have anecdotally said both sides and they have. Stop putting words in my mouth they don't taste well.Again, where's the proof of that?? Bolstering your argument by hearsay. Even you said you don't get out to them much.
I don't really care if they do. Good riddance! I know why some do and it has more to do with themselves. People have a hard time holding contradictions in their mind - it's rather unhealthy -it's actually what makes people stupid to some degree and the more they do it, the stupider they get. They see the problems of regulation for vaping and yet have advocated regulations in every other industry, sometimes without a second thought.
Yet men abuse, subvert and starve their consciousness in a manner they would not dream of applying to their hair, toenails or stomachs. They know that these things have a specific identity and specific requirements, and, if one wishes to preserve them, one must comb one’s hair, trim one’s toenails and refrain from swallowing rat poison. But one’s mind? Aw, it needs nothing and can swallow anything. Or so most people believe. And they go on believing it while they toss in agony on a psychologist’s couch, screaming that their mind keeps them in a state of chronic terror for no reason whatever . . .
“Our Cultural Value-Deprivation,”
The Objectivist,
Or would be, Chairman, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
- - Governmental Affairs, for looking into Agency improper actions.
It is a Dual Purpose Committee.
Said, If FDA does not comply,(lol) Further actions could be taken........including Summonsing to Testify.
From now on I'm going to watch Pete Bustardos videos on 1.5 speed
Rip Trippers is fun speeded up - for a few seconds.
Again, anecdotal - means nothing really - only to you. Doesn't make it universal. I could give you 10 other incidences of just the opposite - but doesn't mean nothing - only to me :- )
And for everyone that sees shops doing nothing - they should speak to them about it.
There is no "OR" in there. Now where did the Chairman say that his influence on Homeland Security would not come into play when the FDA doesn't (and didn't) respond in time to his requests for information? Hmmm? Where was this made "Clear"?
He never said his Influence with Homeland would enter into this in any way, however he clearly indicated action could cause Governmental Affairs action to take place.
I simply asked where you had heard Homeland involvement?
I have carefully listened to all his interviews.
Bed time, pick it up later.
I expect a subpoena after a few nudges..... should be interesting though.
Ok Kent, you're right. No vape businesses need to be doing any more than they already are. Things are fine now. The many different members here, and CASAA members on Facebook that say that they've visited shops that either profess to know nothing, or don't inform their customers, even the few shops that I've been to that aren't participating, we've all just been really lucky and have hit the only shops doing this. Every other shop in the country is doing their part.Everyone?? No one has said that. Now you're just making up your own case
Again, where's the proof of that?? Bolstering your argument by hearsay. Even you said you don't get out to them much.
I don't really care if they do. Good riddance! I know why some do and it has more to do with themselves. People have a hard time holding contradictions in their mind - it's rather unhealthy -it's actually what makes people stupid to some degree and the more they do it, the stupider they get. They see the problems of regulation for vaping and yet have advocated regulations in every other industry, sometimes without a second thought.
Yet men abuse, subvert and starve their consciousness in a manner they would not dream of applying to their hair, toenails or stomachs. They know that these things have a specific identity and specific requirements, and, if one wishes to preserve them, one must comb one’s hair, trim one’s toenails and refrain from swallowing rat poison. But one’s mind? Aw, it needs nothing and can swallow anything. Or so most people believe. And they go on believing it while they toss in agony on a psychologist’s couch, screaming that their mind keeps them in a state of chronic terror for no reason whatever . . .
“Our Cultural Value-Deprivation,”
The Objectivist,
Let's not focus on the problem at hand, the problem that will disappear, along with the industry, if we don't find a solution. Instead let's focus on the crusade to completely change how the country works. After the revolution, we can worry about building the vape industry back up.
Do you always answer questions, with questions? Your statement above begs a citation.
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