Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Qew]

The site (MOVE) is inactive. I tried 2x to join in the beginning of May and I've gotten no response. I just sent another email.

I had no idea you were a member here when I posted about your article! I really appreciated finding it, especially after reading so much negative press about vaping, thank you.

I hope MOVE gets their site back in action, that is the kind of positive exposure, along with articles like yours, that might wake some people up to the facts.

 

[Bob Chill]

The FDA and CDC are probably going to have to come up with a new angle shortly. The "anecdotal" deflection and "gateway" arguments are close to having more holes than a gopher colony.

As the number of vapers increase so does the scope of influence on never smoker friends and family. There will be a tipping point where trying to bury the truth can no longer be done without looking like a complete ...... We just have to hope that happens before the summer of 2018.

I don't think any of us thought we could avoid the tax man and law man forever. Yea, it sucks on many levels but vices come with costs whether they're justified or not.

The vape industry is ripe for deregulation down the road even in the worst case scenario we are facing now. I'm proud and thrilled to be a part of the pioneer stage of the evolution no matter what. Let's hope future adopters have a chance at experiencing at least a piece of what we have sooner rather than later.

 

[bnrkwest]

No, but it does mean you can have some 316L coil as earrings and whip one off if you need to build a quick coil while out and about. Just don't leave the house without some cotton, too.

I love this vape jewelry! Like mod pins, coil earrings, ejuice bottle style necklaces, very cool!

 

[Mazinny]

Wow... just wow. What is up with all these B&M stores with their heads in the sand?!? Quite worrisome!

I know that some B&M's are Oblivious. But I also know that some B&M's are Purposely not saying anything to their Customers for Fear that they will Freak Out. And think about doing DIY instead of buying retail e-Liquids.

"A bad enough situation
Is sure enough getting worse
Everybody's crying Justice!
Just as soon as there's Business First"

Bonnie Raitt, "Everybody's Cry'n Mercy"

There are many thousand ( upwards of 15000 by some estimates ) vapeshops in the U.S. Imagine if they all acted as if their livelihoods were at stake !

They should be the ones educating their customers on these regulations. Each one of these stores has a dedicated customer base, ranging from dozens to hundreds i imagine. If only 50% of these customers were aware of the situation and cared enough, we would have a much better chance of stopping this, or slowing it down. Are we surprised that we don't have more support from the non-vape community, when we don't have even 10 % from within the community, knowing and caring.

 

[mpols]

I had no idea you were a member here when I posted about your article! I really appreciated finding it, especially after reading so much negative press about vaping, thank you.

I hope MOVE gets their site back in action, that is the kind of positive exposure, along with articles like yours, that might wake some people up to the facts.

My interest in vaping started after a patient of mine shared with me this news report on the RCP study. This started my obsession with educating myself on this issue. I joined here soon after in an effort to find recommendations for patients and family members that smoke. I sent my first article to the publisher the day before the FDA deeming regulations were published. Needless to say, I was oblivious about the politics against vaping.

This has been one thread that I follow to keep up with news on the deemings impact and for information on articles, webinars, and other inside information on what's going on. (I must say that it get's tiring at times to keep up with this thread).

I've been aiming my articles at non-smokers and non-vapers. I'm trying to educate my small corner of the universe on the societal and individual benefits of harm reduction. Most of my patients thought that vaping was as bad or worse than smoking. Many of them are now advocating to their friends and family that smoke to switch.

I truly believe that an emotional plea backed by scientific evidence can truly win people over. I believe that printing the RCP report, and bringing it to your doctors with your stories can make a change. I also encourage you to print the report and physically take it to your elected officials offices with your stories.

Even if it's a lost cause (like Sherrod Brown), I think it's worth it, because maybe their fight against vaping will be just a little less. They don't care about you. They don't care about vaping. What they do care about is their friend or family member that smokes and can't quit. When you talk to these politicians, that's what we need to get them thinking of.

 

[nicnik]

In other news...

Giggles are always good! A Trump Speech At Half Speed Makes Him Sound Really Drunk

After reading that article and watching the video, I tried it with other videos. Amazingly, it didn't make Rip Trippers funny. It made him sound almost normal. On the other hand, Phil Busardo...oh my!

Click on settings at the bottom right. Set the speed to 0.5. If it started playing before you changed the speed, go back to the beginning. "Can I taste your juice?" is priceless.



We now return to the regular thread.

Mine doesn't have a setting for speed. Maybe 'cause my browser's too old, or whatever. Does it has fast settings, too?

But I downloaded a bit of that Pusardo review and played it back half speed. He's very, very drunk!

 

[Kent C]

There are many thousand ( upwards of 15000 by some estimates ) vapeshops in the U.S. Imagine if they all acted as if their livelihoods were at stake !

They are at stake, an many of them know it. But just for a thought experiment, let's say you own a B&M and make a net profit of $5 million a year. Which 3 or 4 products would you chose to do PMTA's on? Or would you not even apply, not knowing whether the FDA would even approve 1 product?

It may not be 'oblivion' that some of you are seeing, but the 'reality' of the situation. Easy to criticize unless you walk a bit in their shoes. I know personally many vendors that are well aware of the deeming and the expense it would take them to have even just a few of their products submitted for application where not only is there no guarantee, but also where there is an agency, that lies and demonizes and distorts the reality of the industry as a whole, deciding. That agency is going to decide what is accepted or rejected.

 

[Lessifer]

They are at stake, an many of them know it. But just for a thought experiment, let's say you own a B&M and make a net profit of $5 million a year. Which 3 or 4 products would you chose to do PMTA's on? Or would you not even apply, not knowing whether the FDA would even approve 1 product?

It may not be 'oblivion' that some of you are seeing, but the 'reality' of the situation. Easy to criticize unless you walk a bit in their shoes. I know personally many vendors that are well aware of the deeming and the expense it would take them to have even just a few of their products submitted for application where not only is there no guarantee, but also where there is an agency, that lies and demonizes and distorts the reality of the industry as a whole, deciding. That agency is going to decide what is accepted or rejected.

Isn't that all the more reason for those shops to be doing everything they can to change things? What good does it do to keep customers in the dark? How much louder would our voice be if every shop encouraged every customer to get involved?

 

[crxess]

Just Dropped this on Tobacco Free Kids on FB, in several spots

 

[Kent C]

Isn't that all the more reason for those shops to be doing everything they can to change things? What good does it do to keep customers in the dark? How much louder would our voice be if every shop encouraged every customer to get involved?

We're either talking about anecdotal cases where someone here perceives something that may not actually be the case - it's not like those who "see" this, are in the stores 24/7. OR there is a built in bias against business, always thinking the worst case scenario - a bit like how some TV shows depict CEOs, managers, etc. based on a political belief where they are all murderers, polluters, embezzlers, sexist, racist, abusers, etc. etc. Something that has been actually studied to show that the number of such incidents are depicted on TV something like 150 times the actual occurances in reality.

I have my own 'anecdotal cases' where that is not the case - where they have letters to be signed, some CAASA cards, etc. Enlightening their customers along the way. Many times the owners aren't there but are doing stuff behind the scenes, etc. going to hearings, addressing local politicians, etc.

I'm sure there are both 'types', and neither represent a generality that has been made by many here. I don't claim that, but others feel perfectly safe to - mainly because of that built in bias futhered by a particular political view, reinforced by media and Hollywood, and unions and so-called "consumer groups'. They're basically in agreement with what seems to be driving the FDA - to put the industry out of business.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Perhaps consumers, retailers, and manufacturers need to come together and form ONE entity to fight the 2007 grandfather date. That is our first and biggest concern. I propose "Vapers Against Government Interference Negating Advancements". Together, we can lick em!

 

[Lessifer]

We're either talking about anecdotal cases where someone here perceives something that may not actually be the case - it's not like those who "see" this, are in the stores 24/7. OR there is a built in bias against business, always thinking the worst case scenario - a bit like how some TV shows depict CEOs, managers, etc. based on a political believe where they are all murderers, polluters, embezzlers, sexist, racist, abusers, etc. etc. Something that has been actually studied to show that the number of such incidents are depicted on TV something like 150 times the actual occurances in reality.

I have my own 'anecdotal cases' where that is not the case - where they have letters to be signed, some CAASA cards, etc. Enlightening their customers along the way. Many times the owners aren't there but are doing stuff behind the scenes, etc. going to hearings, addressing local politicians, etc.

I'm sure there are both 'types', and neither represent a generality that has been made by many here. I don't claim that, but others feel perfectly safe to - mainly because of that built in bias futhered by a particular political view, reinforced by media and Hollywood, and unions and so-called "consumer groups'. They're basically in agreement with what seems to be driving the FDA - to put the industry out of business.

No one here, at least not to me, is saying this in an anti business kind of way. Yes, there are many shops who are working to help vaping, but there are also many that aren't. I've been in both kinds myself and I don't go to many shops.

With an estimated 9 million vapers in the US, there should be more involved than there are. Every day there are new members that post here saying they knew nothing of what is going on. We, as consumers, are doing everything we can to spread the word. The more shops that do the same, the better.

If I were a shop owner, I know what I would choose to do.

If a vape business wants to stay in business, they should be helping. That help should be visible to every customer that walks in. If you think that's an anti business sentiment, well, maybe you've got some bias of your own.

 

[MyMagicMist]

Perhaps consumers, retailers, and manufacturers need to come together and form ONE entity to fight the 2007 grandfather date. That is our first and biggest concern. I propose "Vapers Against Government Interference Negating Advancements". Together, we can lick em!

I am going to take a whack at it with my Personal Electronic Nicotine Inhalation System. Figure that might gum it up a bit if I vape too hot.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

No one here, at least not to me, is saying this in an anti business kind of way. Yes, there are many shops who are working to help vaping, but there are also many that aren't. I've been in both kinds myself and I don't go to many shops.

With an estimated 9 million vapers in the US, there should be more involved than there are. Every day there are new members that post here saying they knew nothing of what is going on. We, as consumers, are doing everything we can to spread the word. The more shops that do the same, the better.

If I were a shop owner, I know what I would choose to do.

If a vape business wants to stay in business, they should be helping. That help should be visible to every customer that walks in. If you think that's an anti business sentiment, well, maybe you've got some bias of your own.

I think that at the retail level, the VAST MAJORITY of vape gear is sold by establishments that sell both vape gear AND cigarettes. Many smoke shops double as vape shops, then there are gas stations, party stores, walmarts, etc. etc. THOSE numbers FAR outweigh the dedicated vape stores. They couldn't care LESS which way the government moves. They are going to sell product in either case.

 

[crxess]

Perhaps consumers, retailers, and manufacturers need to come together and form ONE entity to fight the 2007 grandfather date. That is our first and biggest concern. I propose "Vapers Against Government Interference Negating Advancements". Together, we can lick em!

On that note
[Media Removed]

Repeatedly, over and over, Stressing the Need to get united on one front to take on the FDA in Court and to Get the Cole-Bishop amendment/agricultural bill finalized.

 

[Lessifer]

I think that at the retail level, the VAST MAJORITY of vape gear is sold by establishments that sell both vape gear AND cigarettes. Many smoke shops double as vape shops, then there are gas stations, party stores, walmarts, etc. etc. THOSE numbers FAR outweigh the dedicated vape stores. They couldn't care LESS which way the government moves. They are going to sell product in either case.

True, but not the shops I'm talking about. I don't expect a gas station to have CASAA fliers. Any shop with vape in the name though...

 

[MyMagicMist]

I think that at the retail level, the MAJORITY of vape gear is sold by establishments that sell both vape gear AND cigarettes. Many smoke shops double as vape shops, then there are gas stations, party stores, walmarts, etc. etc. THOSE numbers FAR outweigh the dedicated vape stores. They could care LESS which way the government moves. They are going to sell product in either case.

Quite agree. We got a Smoker's Paradise in town. They sell cigarettes, beer, cigars, pipe tobacco, snuff, chaw and behold one display case of super crappy vape gear. They rather sell you the BT 808 kits from the tobacco section though. Gives them more money long run than dallying around with vapers at one crappy display case.

 

[sonicdsl]

 

[ENAUD]

In other news...

Giggles are always good! A Trump Speech At Half Speed Makes Him Sound Really Drunk

After reading that article and watching the video, I tried it with other videos. Amazingly, it didn't make Rip Trippers funny. It made him sound almost normal. On the other hand, Phil Busardo...oh my!

Click on settings at the bottom right. Set the speed to 0.5. If it started playing before you changed the speed, go back to the beginning. "Can I taste your juice?" is priceless.



We now return to the regular thread.

From now on I'm going to watch Pete Bustardos videos on 1.5 speed

 

[Kent C]

No one here, at least not to me, is saying this in an anti business kind of way.

Head in the sand pics?? And not just that - If you don't see this - something is blinding you.

Yes, there are many shops who are working to help vaping, but there are also many that aren't. I've been in both kinds myself and I don't go to many shops.

Again, anecdotal. If there's a study out there that says so many businesses haven't done a thing about the deeming, then I'd like to see it. "Personal observations" by anyone, including me, mean nothing and to make a generalization about one or a few incidents is idiotic. To then post these idiocies in an attempt to bash business is also idiotic. And just because a 19 yr old clerk may not get it or doesn't care, doesn't mean the owner doesn't.

And again - it may be just the reality of the situation that businesses either don't have enough cash on hand for PMTA's (exactly what the FDA intended and said so), or think it would be a waste of money and effort. THEY see the writing on the wall. This is a done deal, unless certain ploys - Cole, Cole/Bishop, court cases etc. undo it by some measure and the probabilities on those aren't that certain. We hope, but even if Cole/Bishop went through both Houses, are you certain the President wouldn't veto the bill?

If a vape business wants to stay in business, they should be helping.

Again, this is a DONE DEAL. Some know they won't be in business. They're realists and even then SOME are helping - maybe not the ones you see.

As far as my own bias - I don't think every business owner is a crook and only looks out for themselves or are stupid people. Stupid people don't do well in business.