Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Lessifer]

I wonder what effect the FDA regulation will have on clones released after 8/9?

Say an authentic gets released in July, and gets the two or three year grace period. Later, someone clones it and get it out in October. Doesn't this make it easy for the authentic maker to "report" the clone to the FDA? Technically that's not the same products since it's from two different manufacturers.

I asked the FDA and they said manufacturers can use receipts and other time stamped documents to prove that a product was out before 8/9

Well, the FDA can't really touch foreign manufacturers, the only people they could go after would be those selling the products in the US. I guess the question is, how will US retailers be able to tell if a product they are purchasing for purposes of resale is properly registered and was available prior to 8/8/2016?

Interesting question.

As to authentic makers reporting clones, well, I know how I'd feel about any manufacturer that I learned of who did that. I don't really have any plans to buy any more hardware though, so, there's that too.

 

[crxess]

Oh God, this is so bad! Forgive me, please forgive me...but this is the first thing that popped into my mind.

I was 11yrs old when that came out
Back then, we would wait at the Shipyard for my Dad to Debark from his tour of the Mediterranean.......Spend weeks on Vacations at the beach, Picnic with other Families, Ave Huge Reunions and share in the Freedom We had......HAD....I said HAD.
Today Family members seldom stop to talk with each other. Little to discuss beyond lack of money to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<<<<<<<<<<fill it in.
Every Freedom we have, someone now challenges as if they are more special and deserve to punish us.

 

[The Ocelot]

They've recycled all the rest, no reason to believe they wouldn't with poison.

<shrug> My money is on something new and twisted. Give it a week.

 

[The Ocelot]

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am - the FDA regs and vaping "news" has come and gone as far as the media is concerned. It is old news to them - they have already moved on. Most of the population couldn't care less - there is nothing to sensationalize.

I agree. At the moment there is something else that has taken the attention of the public, but, quite frankly, I think we're toast.

 

[crxess]

I agree. At the moment there is something else that has taken the attention of the public, but, quite frankly, I think we're toast.

I'm not being Toast..............unless it's French Toast!

What We...... For me it is They(Smokers, Future Smokers, Relapsing Smokers, New Vapers) that are Toast...........Burnt before they even got a chance.

And I HATE BURNT TOAST!

FDA Owes us a Free Meal - Drop the Deeming Regs!!!!

In All seriousness - Do not stop Countering Junk Science and BS scare Stories. This is what We CAN DO to keep the corruption of Truth to a minimum while the Courts have the opportunity, if needed, to Sort all this out.(Most likely)
It will also help with Congress. We need to keep promoting the Truth about the Value of Vaping the Risk/Harm Reduction compared to Smoking.

The Comparison is the Argument, Not the Dag nab Children, not the TAXES Not the possibility of 1 person in sever million being negatively effected...
The Comparison of 95%+ Healthier than Combustible Tobacco consumption!!!!!

Vaping is not Just Safer, It is Needed. It Keeps Moms and Dads around for their Children. It gives Grandparents more time with Family.
It produces Cleaner Air than just Exhaling
It may reduce the New friend effect in Senior citizens(Alzheimer's)
Study finds nicotine safe, helps in Alzheimer's, Parkinson's
It May aid in self control for Schizophrenia.
http://www.brainfacts.org/diseases-...ders/articles/2008/smoking-and-schizophrenia/

KMA FDA

 

[The Ocelot]

I'm not being Toast..............unless it's French Toast!

What We...... For me it is They(Smokers, Future Smokers, Relapsing Smokers, New Vapers) that are Toast...........Burnt before they even got a chance.

And I HATE BURNT TOAST!

FDA Owes us a Free Meal - Drop the Deeming Regs!!!!

In All seriousness - Do not stop Countering Junk Science and BS scare Stories. This is what We CAN DO to keep the corruption of Truth to a minimum while the Courts have the opportunity, if needed, to Sort all this out.(Most likely)
It will also help with Congress. We need to keep promoting the Truth about the Value of Vaping the Risk/Harm Reduction compared to Smoking.

The Comparison is the Argument, Not the Dag nab Children, not the TAXES Not the possibility of 1 person in sever million being negatively effected...
The Comparison of 95%+ Healthier than Combustible Tobacco consumption!!!!!

Vaping is not Just Safer, It is Needed. It Keeps Moms and Dads around for their Children. It gives Grandparents more time with Family.
It produces Cleaner Air than just Exhaling
It may reduce the New friend effect in Senior citizens(Alzheimer's)
Study finds nicotine safe, helps in Alzheimer's, Parkinson's
It May aid in self control for Schizophrenia.
http://www.brainfacts.org/diseases-...ders/articles/2008/smoking-and-schizophrenia/

KMA FDA

 

[The Ocelot]

I just realized something. My sense of taste returned when I started vaping, and OMG! Vaping is the gateway to ice cream! I never liked it before, I really didn't - but oh gosh, Blue Bunny Cherry Pickin' Chocolate (cherry ice cream with cherry and dark chocolate chunks) is abfab!

 

[VNeil]

It's gotta get awfully tempting for some editors to say to hell with their sponsors and bosses, and start breaking the story in a big way. Nothing else has been helping with the decline of their industry, and the decline in their stature. Any chance of rogue reporters and rogue editors teaming up?

Good point.

Good question.

Do you think it will never happen, or just not for a very long time?

I don't think it will ever happen but I will be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Steamix]

Because they are the FDA and don't need no stinking badges.

Uh..sorry, I guess... didn't see no badge. Mistook you for a burglar.

On the floor..that your molar ?

Oh, and on your way out, please try not to bleed too much onto my lawn...

 

[VNeil]

So.......... How did they get past this?

They thumbed their nose at the law. And I think this is a major point raised in the Halo suit.

 

[beckdg]

Our side is way too small to be heard in the big picture.

Malarky!

Too atrophied to work for it.

Reptile ownership was almost banned a few years back.

Reptile owners went to war.

The fight on HIV was won when it was still believed to be only a problem gay men could have.

Now THAT was a war!

Vapers are a special special interest group.

Our lives are at stake, yet we don't care to fight.

Sure, some will answer a call to action or sign a petition.

Some...

But dare to attempt to get us out of our joose mixing chair to save our own lives and see what happens.



Tapatyped

 

[Bob Chill]

They did. But that amendment is a much "softer" way to agree. IIRC- there was one R who voted no so there's that.

A Dem co-sponsoring HR2058 is committing party treason with the way Congress has been behaving the last 7 years. The biggest bipartisan agreement in Congress is to be partisan at all costs unless you absolutely have to agree with the other side.

OMG- I just picked myself up off the floor and thankfully didn't die...D Rep Collin Petersen from MN joined the party yesterday...hmmm...is this bill becoming real?

 

[Bob Chill]

Malarky!

Too atrophied to work for it.

Reptile ownership was almost banned a few years back.

Reptile owners went to war.

The fight on HIV was won when it was still believed to be only a problem gay men could have.

Now THAT was a war!

Vapers are a special special interest group.

Our lives are at stake, yet we don't care to fight.

Sure, some will answer a call to action or sign a petition.

Some...

But dare to attempt to get us out of our joose mixing chair to save our own lives and see what happens.



Tapatyped

I should have been more specific. We probably will be heard in the sense that we'll get some concessions sometime in the next 2 years. But the very unfortunate similarity to "smoking" is going to hold us back no matter what we do or say. At least for the time being. We'll never have what we've had over the past years and it stings.

I'm not laying down. Believe me on that. I harass the FDA at every turn, speak advocacy whenever I can, write and email whomever I can, and donate money where I see fit. I'm just in the opinion that we are at a serious disadvantage with time quickly running out. This isn't nearly the same type of fight that lizard owners and such have faced. Our enemy has more money than God and as much power as Satan. The majority of our audience doesn't particularly care for us either. There are few folks that are totally indifferent to ecigs. They are either for or against.

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Malarky!

Too atrophied to work for it.

Reptile ownership was almost banned a few years back.

Reptile owners went to war.

The fight on HIV was won when it was still believed to be only a problem gay men could have.

Now THAT was a war!

Vapers are a special special interest group.

Our lives are at stake, yet we don't care to fight.

Sure, some will answer a call to action or sign a petition.

Some...

But dare to attempt to get us out of our joose mixing chair to save our own lives and see what happens.



Tapatyped

I've been as critical as anyone of what seems to be a failure to mobilize and/or commit on the part of this community, but I don't think it is the individuals who are at fault.

Sure, everyone could always do something more, and I'm not sure I could claim that vapers are any more prone to mobilize than any other special interest group, but I think that they(we) are on par with other groups, at the individual level.

The failure to mobilize, in my opinion, is due to ignorance to the peril, on the individual level, because of a lack of sophistication and maturity on the part of the community's "leaders".

We've seen almost no evolution in tactics on the part of CASAA et. al. between the regulation draft-phase, the release-phase, and now.

Still, for the most part, the same impotent petitions, calls to contact legislators, and stacks of fliers in shops that they were doing two years ago. They've failed, if they attempted at all, to get placement on news programs and talk radio. There wasn't, that I've heard about at least, a drive to buy showing right to A Billion Lives.

Our community "leaders", our support and mobilization network, seem to be conducting themselves as if they are a campus organization, fighting the dean's administration, to get more environmentally-responsible meal choices in the cafeteria or some such nonsense.

I know that saying that CASAA is anything short of awesome is probably not going to be popular around here, but, in my view, our community "leader" is impotent and immature.

The individuals in the community would/could mobilize to fight this, they just don't have any leadership to inform them of what is going on, let alone mobilize them as a unified force to fight it.

$0.02

 

[beckdg]

I've been as critical as anyone of what seems to be a failure to mobilize and/or commit on the part of this community, but I don't think it is the individuals who are at fault.

Sure, everyone could always do something more, and I'm not sure I could claim that vapers are any more prone to mobilize than any other special interest group, but I think that they(we) are on par with other groups, at the individual level.

The failure to mobilize, in my opinion, is due to ignorance to the peril, on the individual level, because of a lack of sophistication and maturity on the part of the community's "leaders".

We've seen almost no evolution in tactics on the part of CASAA et. al. between the regulation draft-phase, the release-phase, and now.

Still, for the most part, the same impotent petitions, calls to contact legislators, and stacks of fliers in shops that they were doing two years ago. They've failed, if they attempted at all, to get placement on news programs and talk radio. There wasn't, that I've heard about at least, a drive to buy showing right to A Billion Lives.

Our community "leaders", our support and mobilization network, seem to be conducting themselves as if they are a campus organization, fighting the dean's administration, to get more environmentally-responsible meal choices in the cafeteria or some such nonsense.

I know that saying that CASAA is anything short of awesome is probably not going to be popular around here, but, in my view, our community "leader" is impotent and immature.

The individuals in the community would/could mobilize to fight this, they just don't have any leadership to inform them of what is going on, let alone mobilize them as a unified force to fight it.

$0.02

Some truth to that.

But that all needs funding.

Which is disgustingly lacking from the community.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

This isn't nearly the same type of fight that lizard owners and such have faced. Our enemy has more money than God and as much power as Satan. The majority of our audience doesn't particularly care for us either. There are few folks that are totally indifferent to ecigs. They are either for or against.

During that battle, the news was airing the toddler in Florida that was swallowed whole by her step dad's pet reptile.

When the war on Aids was won, the gay male was public enemy #1.

You're right. Theres a major difference. Vapers have docs, friends and family that are sympathetic.

Tapatyped

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Some truth to that.

But that all needs funding.

Which is disgustingly lacking from the community.

Tapatyped

Right right. But the fund-raising is a function and responsibility of the organization.

Exactly zero people have ever turned on PBS at 3am, seen the blank screen, and said "you know what? I should send them $10 so they can put something on this early." Those people all changed the channel.

Orgs get their donations when people see them doing something.

Sure, petitions and calls to action are something, but that's all being done just as effectively by members of this forum who are passionate and bored between meetings or wherever else they're doing during the day.

CASAA is impotent because it operates like a campus-level advocacy group, not because people just fail to send them money at random.

 

[VNeil]

During that battle, the news was airing the toddler in Florida that was swallowed whole by her step dad's pet reptile.

When the war on Aids was won, the gay male was public enemy #1.

You're right. Theres a major difference. Vapers have docs, friends and family that are sympathetic.

Tapatyped

Gay rights has always been a media darling. The gay rights battle was between the liberal media supporting gay rights and a very large portion of the more conservative population very much against.

That is fundamentally different than our battle which is against the popular media as much as the Big "B's"

 

[beckdg]

Gay rights has always been a media darling. The gay rights battle was between the liberal media supporting gay rights and a very large portion of the more conservative population very much against.

That is fundamentally different than our battle which is against the popular media as much as the Big "B's"

You're speaking from the wrong side of the coin, the wrong decade and the wrong issue to speak of the reality of the war on Aids.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Right right. But the fund-raising is a function and responsibility of the organization.

Exactly zero people have ever turned on PBS at 3am, seen the blank screen, and said "you know what? I should send them $10 so they can put something on this early." Those people all changed the channel.

Orgs get their donations when people see them doing something.

Sure, petitions and calls to action are something, but that's all being done just as effectively by members of this forum who are passionate and bored between meetings or wherever else they're doing during the day.

CASAA is impotent because it operates like a campus-level advocacy group, not because people just fail to send them money at random.

Yes.

Though (just pointing out, not arguing) they're set up like a campus level advocacy group.

5 volunteers can barely do so much. And with nobody savvy on that front or to foot the bill for a large (or any) fund or awareness raising campaign, it's going to stay stagnant.

Tapatyped