Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

I dunno how much Profit someone like Reynolds America makes on the sale of a Pack of Smokes? But their Sales to Net Income Doesn't look too bad.

Reynolds American Inc (RAI) Stock Report – NASDAQ.com

REYNOLDS AMERICAN INC (Form: 10-K, Received: 02/11/2016 10:15:23)

 

[Lessifer]

. Federal cigarette tax is $1.01 per pack. Not shown are the special taxes or fees some states place on cigarettes made by NonParticipating Manufacturers (NPMs), the companies that have not joined the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) between the states and the major cigarette companies. Some local governments also have their own cigarette taxes, such as Chicago ($1.18), Cook County, IL ($3.00), New York City ($1.50), Philadelphia ($2.00), and Juneau, AK ($3.00).

https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0222.pdf

Which is why I chose Camel and California. Your source said $.35 to produce, afaik California doesn't allow counties or cities to enact their own tobacco taxes, the recent bill proposing this was vetoed by the governor, and it's one reason cigarettes are relatively cheap here.

Now, I'm guessing that the $.35 to produce may not include MSA payments, but are you really trying to argue that cigarettes are not profitable for the tobacco companies? I'm not saying that governments, federal, state, and local don't profit as well or even more in some circumstances.

 

[seminolewind]

Who benefits the most from the sale of iPhones - Apple..... from the sale of Chevys - GM.. from the sale of gasoline - Exxon Mobile.... from the sale of Big Macs - McDonalds.... d'uh.... All do whatever they can to 'keep that money from coming in'. Or they'd be out of business.

You are taking my "follow the money" out of context. Context meaning how is BT using Altria in all this? What slimy underhanded action has BT planned to come out of this on top smelling clean while their competition is deemed out of the game? Is Altria the sacrificial lamb? "Follow the money" is a pretty simple term if you're talking about making Big Macs bigger, or iphones adding more smarts to their phone. However, those examples are pretty simple. But going up against BT , who could count on people never finding anything better to switch to except maybe gum (not), now does have real competition. And if you "follow the money" it may give clarity to some of the underhanded slimy things they will do to remove this thing that the smokers are leaving their cigarettes for. And I don't think that their version of a vaping product was doing so well. Not as well as ours. So, hence the sacrifice of theirs to rid themselves of us, or anything that was worth giving up cigarettes for.
I had to look up what their version of a vaping device is called. Shoot, I can't remember.

 

[Kent C]

but are you really trying to argue that cigarettes are not profitable for the tobacco companies?

Of course not. Just that the 'follow the money' phrase is worthless when you're simply talking about profit - whether it is Altria, Apple, GM, Exxon. It is only when gov't gets involved to where it makes any sense and then gov't has to have the control first. Without that, there's no money to follow :- )

In my post above, the cost of a pack from RJR is $.35 and they sell it for $.63 to $.87 that's a pretty good profit. But other than the wholesale and CC take, the rest is taxes and depending on what state or locality, that could be anywhere from around 50+% on up, for the cost of a pack.

 

[Kent C]

You are taking my "follow the money" out of context.

Yeah.... invoking Twain - have a nice life.

 

[seminolewind]

Yeah.... invoking Twain - have a nice life.

Whatever.

 

[Lessifer]

In my post above, the cost of a pack from RJR is $.35 and they sell it for $.63 to $.87 that's a pretty good profit.

and... I was just calling BS on this part specifically, because the numbers don't add up.

It doesn't really matter though. When you follow the money, some goes to BT(whether that's $.50 per pack or $1.50), $1 goes to the federal government, a lot goes to the state and local government. On top of that the states get their MSA payments. Then, you have to consider all of the groups that get paid by the federal government/states for their involvement in "tobacco control." I can see BT wanting some products that are somewhat outside of that cycle, and I have no problem accepting that they would rather have vaping survive. They definitely don't lose if vaping disappears, but they win more if it doesn't.

 

[Kent C]

afaik California doesn't allow counties or cities to enact their own tobacco taxes, the recent bill proposing this was vetoed by the governor, and it's one reason cigarettes are relatively cheap here.

Just saw this:

A growing list of California mayors, council members, county supervisors and school board members announced their support today for the California Healthcare, Research and Prevention Tobacco Tax Act of 2016, a $2 per pack tax on tobacco that will appear on the November ballot.

Good luck :- )

 

[Kent C]

and... I was just calling BS on this part specifically, because the numbers don't add up.

It doesn't really matter though. When you follow the money, some goes to BT(whether that's $.50 per pack or $1.50), $1 goes to the federal government, a lot goes to the state and local government. On top of that the states get their MSA payments. Then, you have to consider all of the groups that get paid by the federal government/states for their involvement in "tobacco control." I can see BT wanting some products that are somewhat outside of that cycle, and I have no problem accepting that they would rather have vaping survive. They definitely don't lose if vaping disappears, but they win more if it doesn't.

Basically that's what the vet from RJR was saying - "the rest is taxes". Don't know if you caught that in the above post. And I agree with the rest - 'win more if it doesn't' esp. if Cole/Bishop passes - that's the basis of Siegel's point. Again, not everyone will agree to that, but we know that already. lol

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

The National median excise tax on a pack of cigarettes is $1.53

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Lessifer]

Just saw this:

A growing list of California mayors, council members, county supervisors and school board members announced their support today for the California Healthcare, Research and Prevention Tobacco Tax Act of 2016, a $2 per pack tax on tobacco that will appear on the November ballot.

Good luck :- )

Yeah, prop 56, I'm well aware... BT is fighting it, as are SFATA and CASAA, but it's a ballot measure and by the title alone I expect it to pass. Not that I won't do whatever I can to fight it as well. The tax increase will do nothing to curb smoking, is regressive, and won't benefit who people think it will benefit. Add to that the fact that they're vaguely including vapor products and it's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Mazinny]

It would be too long of a post anyway As Zoidman points out, BT doesn't get much for their product vs. what the feds and state gov'ts get. If anyone is 'gouging' it's gov't. From an earlier post:
Per pack cost : 27 - 35 cents a pack.
RJ Reynolds price to dealer 63 - 87 cents a pack.
Average store profit $1 the rest is tax.

Source: have worked for rjr since 1982.
(a month ago)

Price to dealer is a lot higher than that. I don't know about other states, but price to "agents" in NYC is $4 to $6 a pack according to the following. I believe that includes the Federal Excise tax of $ 1.01 though. The agent is then responsible for payment of state ( $ 4.35 a pack ) and local ( $ 1.50 a pack ) taxes, before selling on to wholesalers for about $ 0.11 profit per pack, who in turn make about $ 0.06 to $ 0.40 profit per pack. The retailer makes about $1 a pack profit as well. Add to that sales tax which results in the final cost of $ 14.00 a pack to the customer !

https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/cigarette/pub509.pdf

 

[seminolewind]

Their electronic cigarettes will NEVER become popular.
Or if they do, they will have to drastically reduce the current prices.

And that's the starting point that I use to conceptualize every possible scenario.

Big Tobacco is going to offer products (MAYBE) that are enticing, but not sustainable.
People will go on and off them just like the patches and gum.

Big Tobacco will take over the bogus "cessation" industry from Big Pharma.
That's the picture that's in my head.

Obviously, this is not how Big Pharma wanted it.

They wanted to make them drugs, but got shot down in court.
And that was a minor miracle in my opinion.

We need that to happen again.

There will never be able to match our creativity and drive to "make it better". We have such a variety of devices and joos. So much to shop for. Makes BT vaping (cough) devices really boring.

I do think people trade in their cigarettes for vaping products. But cigarettes and smoking over the years has warped our behavior in some way. Maybe for some it's enough to vape. For others , it's the vaping, the curiosity, the shopping, the discussing, always looking to better another, make some astonishing liquid........ It's like an obsession.

 

[BrentMydland]

Price to dealer is a lot higher than that. I don't know about other states, but price to "agents" in NYC is $4 to $6 a pack according to the following. I believe that includes the Federal Excise tax of $ 1.01 though. The agent is then responsible for payment of state ( $ 4.35 a pack ) and local ( $ 1.50 a pack ) taxes, before selling on to wholesalers for about $ 0.11 profit per pack, who in turn make about $ 0.06 to $ 0.40 profit per pack. The retailer makes about $1 a pack profit as well. Add to that sales tax which results in the final cost of $ 14.00 a pack to the customer !

https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/cigarette/pub509.pdf

I doubt I ever would have smoked if they cost that much here. Down here in the south it's only like 35-40 a carton for premiums and as low as 20 a carton for cheap stuff. Back when I was smoking I'd buy two cartons of american spirits about every three weeks for 78.91 all in

 

[mikepetro]

Hehehe, I remember getting them for 50cents a pack out at sea, just as soon as we were outside of US territorial waters....

 

[retired1]

Hehehe, I remember getting them for 50cents a pack out at sea, just as soon as we were outside of US territorial waters....

Yep. Carton of Camels used to cost me 2 bucks in the Commissary when I first joined back in the late 70s.

 

[zoiDman]

Here is an Interesting Post from Another Thread...

"For USA customers, the xxxxx was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention."

I just saw this phrase with a product on one of my favorite China sites.
So many new devices were pushed into the market to beat the deadline that I had almost forgot what the FDA has done to us.

Grim reminder that the vaping industry will continue to progress forward in the rest of the world, while we stand still in the USA.

 

[zoiDman]

IJOY really introduced several excellent tanks this year, such as Limitless RDTA and Limitless XL. Now it released a unique modular atomizer - IJOY Combo RDTA, which is a little bit like the Aspire Quad-flex in performance way, while takes this type of versatility to a new height.

IJOY Combo RDTA offers six different decks and a pre-made coil head to cover almost all users' needs, no matter you love RTA, RDA, RDTA or sub-ohm tank. With different assembly, these decks would accommodate your building style adequately. In addition to the optional decks, there’s an optional ceramic drip tip available for the tank. And it also comes with a 510 adapter for you to use your own drip tip. Adjustable gold-plated pin enables it to be used on hybrid mod. 6.5ml tank capacity is quite enought for most vapers. All in all, this Combo RDTA is a perfect option for builders as well as pre-made coil lovers.

Parameters
Size: 25 mm (D) x 53 mm (H)
E-liquid capacity: 6.5 ml
Deck/ Coil: IMC-1,IMC-2,IMC3,IMC-4,IMC-5,IMC-6,IMC-COIL(0.3 ohm 40-80W)
Filling: Side filling system
Deck: 20.5 mm Building Deck

More info, please visit:
http://www.heavengifts.com/IJOY-COMBO-RDTA-Tank.html

Don't forget to use our 10% off coupon code "AHG10" for a better price.

For USA customers, the PockeX Pocket was released after the Deeming Day (August 8, 2016). We cannot sell this device to USA, please be attention.

 

[Semiretired]

Here is an Interesting Post from Another Thread...

Not interesting - frightening that one of the most advanced countries in the world can be so far behind.

 

[DC2]

Okay, after thinking about it some more, I have come to the conclusion that if the grandfather date changes, the FDA is going to have to eliminate flavors. In that scenario I can see Big Tobacco faring better over the long run than I am currently imagining. The amount of tax that is eventually applied, and to which type of vaper products it is applied to, should also be a large factor in how the future is shaped, and I'm still working through that in my head. Then there's the availability of free-roaming nicotine. The whole thing gets pretty complicated.