Well, I do agree with you both on reasonable. But it ain't reasonable if it's not needed. And they pretty well know it ain't. That is what should be, must be, objectionable.
Good luck.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Well, I do agree with you both on reasonable. But it ain't reasonable if it's not needed. And they pretty well know it ain't. That is what should be, must be, objectionable.
Good luck.
It is Unfortunate. And the Percentages of Accidents to Non-Accidents is incredibly disproportional. But the Reality is the Media will ALWAYS play up Death and Destruction over something mundane like people Improving their health by Quitting Smoking.
Well, I do agree with you both on reasonable. But it ain't reasonable if it's not needed. And they pretty well know it ain't. That is what should be, must be, objectionable.
Good luck.
I'm a Realist. And when it comes to Some Things, being Needed or Not Needed isn't really all that of a Relevant debate.
What is Relevant is getting support to Change Something that is Crippling the e-Cigarette Market. And that something is the current Deeming.
If I could Roll Back Deeming with something like this Hunter legislation and the Downside was that Mech mods had to include a Fuse, well, after about 1.8 Milliseconds of thought, I would Raise my Hand and say "Do It".
It's Kinda a Baby and a Bathwater thing. An Extremely small price to pay to Reap a Ginormous Benefit.
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Wouldn't a fuse cover this?‘SEC. 1004. STANDARDS FOR THE MANUFACTURING OF E- LIQUIDS AND PERSONAL ELECTRONIC VA-PORIZERS; COMPLIANCE.
(b) MANUFACTURING STANDARDS.—
(2) PERSONAL ELECTRONIC VAPORIZERS.—
(B) SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION.—
A personal electronic vaporizer shall have a mechanism to ensure user and battery safety in the event of a short circuit of the heating element.
So now goes the baby with the bath water and [the] right regulations. Too clever by half. One step forward and two steps back. With one line we have the abolition of open non-regulated vaping…no mechanical vaporizers.
I'd rather they just take their hands out of our pockets.
Extract vaping from tobacco legislation.
Good luck.
I posted this in another forum, but it fits this:
Lets face it, Li-Ion batteries nowadays store a lot of energy. Any time you store a lot of energy, electrical, mechanical, gas, whatever, it increases the consequences during an unintended release.
It's a problem with vaping because many do not do their homework and are careless with that energy. Then they set their pants on fire by throwing an 18650 in with their loose change, resulting in a sensationalized press release adding stigma to vaping.
Then you have Joe-Blow down the street who just wants to quit smoking, isnt even aware of places like ECF, and goes out and buys some high powered device. They dont have a clue about batteries, and see an 18650 as just a fat AA battery in terms of hazard. The local Convenience Store, and even many Vape Shops, dont do a thing to educate the customer.
Then, you have our lawsuit crazy society as a whole forcing Legal Depts to create so many hazard labels that nobody pays attention to the warnings anymore. A good example is "Caution HOT while using" on a clothes Iron. Even the simplest of items come with 3 pages of disclaimers and choke warnings. With so many CYA warnings to protect against frivolous lawsuits, you cant blame the uneducated user for lumping Energizer AAs and 18650s in the same boat. Nobody knows what to take seriously anymore.
Its a problem. And we within the Vape Industry have not resolved it. If we had resolved it then the three letter acronyms wouldnt be paying any attention to it.
Lets face it, Li-Ion batteries nowadays store a lot of energy. Any time you store a lot of energy, electrical, mechanical, gas, whatever, it increases the consequences during an unintended release.
It's a problem with vaping because many do not do their homework and are careless with that energy. Then they set their pants on fire by throwing an 18650 in with their loose change, resulting in a sensationalized press release adding stigma to vaping.
Then you have Joe-Blow down the street who just wants to quit smoking, isnt even aware of places like ECF, and goes out and buys some high powered device. They dont have a clue about batteries, and see an 18650 as just a fat AA battery in terms of hazard. The local Convenience Store, and even many Vape Shops, dont do a thing to educate the customer.
Then, you have our lawsuit crazy society as a whole forcing Legal Depts to create so many hazard labels that nobody pays attention to the warnings anymore. A good example is "Caution HOT while using" on a clothes Iron. Even the simplest of items come with 3 pages of disclaimers and choke warnings. With so many CYA warnings to protect against frivolous lawsuits, you cant blame the uneducated user for lumping Energizer AAs and 18650s in the same boat. Nobody knows what to take seriously anymore.
Its a problem. And we within the Vape Industry have not resolved it. If we had resolved it then the three letter acronyms wouldnt be paying any attention to it.
Well Z to me it's altogether too high a price to pay to accept an unfounded nonsensical arbitrarily preferential prohibition masquerading as a "regulation" while purporting to be the reasonable alternative. We drown the baby doin' that.
With each successive effort of gov to exercise control that we barter away our property right, the greater the price when we look back over our shoulder. Let gov show cause and not to the exclusion of rational alternatives. Otherwise we must argue against it. That is the reasonable thing to do.
What's cheap to you is dear to me (even if not my personal preference).
As for ginormous, I don't know how to count that high.
Good luck
Well Z to me it's altogether too high a price to pay to accept an unfounded nonsensical arbitrarily preferential prohibition masquerading as a "regulation" while purporting to be the reasonable alternative. We drown the baby doin' that.
With each successive effort of gov to exercise control that we barter away our property right, the greater the price when we look back over our shoulder. Let gov show cause and not to the exclusion of rational alternatives. Otherwise we must argue against it. That is the reasonable thing to do.
What's cheap to you is dear to me (even if not my personal preference).
As for ginormous, I don't know how to count that high.
Good luck
I think one thing that it is Very Clear when it comes to Passable Legislation, is that there is No Possibility of Pleasing Everyone.
No Legislation ever Has. Or ever will.
So I guess when it comes to Legislation, it becomes a Balance of Whatcha Get verses Whatch Give Up.
Putting a Fuse or a Hot Spring in a Mech doesn't sound like a "unfounded nonsensical arbitrarily preferential prohibition masquerading as a 'regulation' " to me.
But everyone Draws lines where they think Lines should be Drawn.
Come on z, you know we're not talking about regulating a battery. We're talking about government's authority to take our choice away about buying or using it. Hard to be reasonable when your arm's being wrenched behind your back. And I don't have the time tonight to get into federal authority to constrain importation rather than picking apart this industry, blaming the retailer and user rather than the source. Our political process is the hazard.
Good luck.
Good luck.
I keep thinking a hot spring is a mechanism that meets those criteria and not really a big deal. That or a fuse would seem to be small compromises to keep some of us a bit safer.
Keeping someone from putting a powerful battery uncovered in their pocket with change or keys is another matter. The negative incidents will continue.
Keeping someone from putting a powerful battery uncovered in their pocket with change or keys is another matter. The negative incidents will continue.
Come on z, you know we're not talking about regulating a battery. We're talking about government's authority to take our choice away about buying or using it. Hard to be reasonable when your arm's being wrenched behind your back. And I don't have the time tonight to get into federal authority to constrain importation rather than picking apart this industry, blaming the retailer and user rather than the source. Our political process is the hazard.
Good luck.
Sorry Mac. I just Don't See It as all that Intrusive. Or any arms being Wrenched behind any backs. Although I'll give you Style Points for a Great Visual.
Is this really a Stumbling Block which you would consider to be a Deal Breaker to what the Rest of the Legislation would Achieve?
Yes.
The rest of the limitations are unfounded, baseless overreach formed by the uninformed being led by those with stronger opinions than information.
Tapatyped
As I'm going to be a grandfather this December, well before the regs fully take effect, I'm good with that!
Congrats!As I'm going to be a grandfather this December, well before the regs fully take effect, I'm good with that!
As I'm going to be a grandfather this December, well before the regs fully take effect, I'm good with that!
Right On 440BB.
That is Extremely Cool!
Sorry Mac. I just Don't See It as all that Intrusive. Or any arms being Wrenched behind any backs. Although I'll give you Style Points for a Great Visual.
Is this really a Stumbling Block which you would consider to be a Deal Breaker to what the Rest of the Legislation would Achieve?
Will there be a regulatory equivalent for TESLA? I'll buy your argument when they similarly sanction their vehicles…may explode spontaneously.
Nobody will make a "fused" mechanical. It isn't one then. As I said, it's a preferential and arbitrary clause that merely serves to justify the taking of a regulatory power over a problem that doesn't even exist and may be to the limited extent exhibited effectively addressed in the private sector.
Clarity and credibility are compromised when the justification is groundless or absent. Isn't that in fact what we've been opposing this whole past year? The very premise and value of open systems. We use 'em because we know and trust what's in 'em.
And let me tell you the FDA who would be the designated hitter does not at this point meet that publicly regulated criteria of trusted.
You're right, regulating a battery is not intrusive. It's gov seeking any path legit or not to wrest the means of control over an industry that is extraordinarily offensive and alarming.
And when this "regulatory" power we would enshrine is detrimentally extended to two-part regulated devices, no doubt due the variability of those circuits, who would remember my trivial objection here?
Let those who would presume to be our lawgivers earn our trust instead. Although I do see the merit in Congress' finally deconstructing tobacco's flawed definition… so far, no dice with such poison pills.
Good luck.
So, what would ideal vaping regulations look like? Regulation is going to happen, not because it's necessary, but because it's inevitable.
So, what SHOULD it consist of?
So, what SHOULD it consist of?
I thought that was the Concept of REO putting a Hot Spring in a Mod? To Provide a level of Short Circuit Protection?
Disclaimer: I have never owned a REO. All I know is what I have Read and what people have Told Me.
I think responsible legislation could be as simple as:
- Childproofing
- Prohibit Sales to minors, although I disagree, if the kid wants to smoke I would rather him vape, but I dont see how you could fight this one.
- Truth in labeling for juce, i.e. ingredients, nic %, etc
- Reasonable safe manufacturing practices. Not crazy like Indiana!
- Some sort of battery standard, akin to a UL rating, for elctronic mods.
- Really, the battery industry should be regulated for truth in advertising about chemistry, capacities, and safe manufacturing practices.
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