Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[stols001]

Yep, for me right now it's more about pricing, and less about "Will I ever be able to get it," although I worry about both. I'd say more and more sin taxes are going to be applied, I mean we are seeing it already.....

Anna

 

[zoiDman]

Right, but more and more states are passing similar laws every year, and it wouldn't surprise me if the FedGov also imposes a "sin tax" on vape goods at some point.

Yep. And we will see More and More language such as this...

“(i) Other tobacco products.—Any product not otherwise described under this section that has been determined to be a tobacco product by the Food and Drug Administration through its authorities under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act shall be taxed at a level of tax equivalent to the tax rate for cigarettes on an estimated per use basis as determined by the Secretary.”.

... inserted into Bills like these...

Text - H.R.729 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tobacco Excise Tax and Parity Act of 2017

Text - S.1837 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tobacco Tax Equity Act of 2017

 

[ScottP]

Yep. And we will see More and More language such as this...

“(i) Other tobacco products.—Any product not otherwise described under this section that has been determined to be a tobacco product by the Food and Drug Administration through its authorities under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act shall be taxed at a level of tax equivalent to the tax rate for cigarettes on an estimated per use basis as determined by the Secretary.”.

... inserted into Bills like these...

Text - H.R.729 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tobacco Excise Tax and Parity Act of 2017

Text - S.1837 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Tobacco Tax Equity Act of 2017

The saving grace right now is that those are both 100% Democrat sponsored bills, with Republicans in control of Congress, I don't see these gaining much traction, for now. That could change in the next election cycle though.

 

[CMD-Ky]

The saving grace right now is that those are both 100% Democrat sponsored bills, with Republicans in control of Congress, I don't see these gaining much traction, for now. That could change in the next election cycle though.

My fear is the "you give me this, I give you that" philosophy of sausage making. Career criminals, oops, I mean career politicians, are capable of selling any of their core "principals".

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

If the sin tax was in line with the 95% less harmful aspect of vaping, I would not be opposed. Say, five cents per milliliter. Or, a penny per watt. But, taxing in line with the damage cigarettes causes is inflammatory, insulting, an outright insult to our intelligence, and a money grab.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[MacTechVpr]

If the sin tax was in line with the 95% less harmful aspect of vaping, I would not be opposed. Say, five cents per milliliter. Or, a penny per watt. But, taxing in line with the damage cigarettes causes is inflammatory, insulting, an outright insult to our intelligence, and a money grab.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

It's still a political money grab, if only by degree, based on fraudulent basis of authority.

Extract vaping from tobacco legislation. Only way to be sure.

Good luck.

 

[zoiDman]

The saving grace right now is that those are both 100% Democrat sponsored bills, with Republicans in control of Congress, I don't see these gaining much traction, for now. That could change in the next election cycle though.

I think the Saving Grace is the Complete Systemic Dysfunction of the US Congress to get Anything Done.

And I'm not going to go so far as to say because something was Introduced by a "D" or an "R" that e-Cigarettes/e-Liquids are in someway Safe from Taxation.

Because CMD-Ky mentioned, the making of Sausages is a Disgusting Process.

 

[CMD-Ky]

To kind of jump on to a current popular "theory": Sin taxes are a gateway tax to ever increasing governmental control and loss of freedom.

 

[stols001]

IDK, if there's one thing that seems to unite congress and state houses everywhere, it's the idea of stealing more money from the populace. Normally, I would agree, and I am sure there will be endless debate on HOW the money is stolen, but I have full faith in their ability to achieve it. Unfortunately. Yes, they'll probably tack on a few pork barrel extra things, but I have full faith in Congress to steal vapers money, it's just going to depend on their creativity in doing so.

Man, am I jaded. Well, I suppose at my age I ought to be. I can't even talk politics to my kid anymore because he is in full fledged "take on the world" mode, and all I can do is laugh, and say, "Good luck with that, Kiddo." I remember those days. LOL.

Anna

 

[zoiDman]

The phrase "Sin Tax" is something that usually We or the Media uses to make some kind of Emotional Merit. It's a Snappy little Catch Phrase that seems to invoke Justification with some people.

But when you are 20 Trillion Dollars in the Hole (that's Trillion with a "T") and you want to do even More Spending, Lawmakers seldom need Any Form of Justification.

The Desire to Spend More seems to be Its own Justification.

 

[Robino1]

I do not agree with placing any taxes above what is 'normal' taxes.

Putting them in a 'sin tax' category leaves them open to have those taxes raised at the whim of lawmakers whenever they need more money.

If taxed under the normal taxes as everything else, I have no problem.

 

[jmur]

I'm also fine with a "normalized" tax, in line with other products that don't have the "sin" shadow hanging over them. After all, it IS a commodity, and we've grown to accept (not LIKE) the taxes on other commodities. As long as vaping is not equated with combustibles.

And Anna, as far as your convos with your son, remember this: Winston Churchill once said (loosely quoted) "If you're not a liberal in your twenties you have no heart. If you're not a conservative in your fifties you have no brain".

He'll eventually come around......

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm also fine with a "normalized" tax, in line with other products that don't have the "sin" shadow hanging over them. After all, it IS a commodity, and we've grown to accept (not LIKE) the taxes on other commodities. As long as vaping is not equated with combustibles.

And Anna, as far as your convos with your son, remember this: Winston Churchill once said (loosely quoted) "If you're not a liberal in your twenties you have no heart. If you're not a conservative in your fifties you have no brain".

He'll eventually come around......

No you're not Anna, but apathetic. We all are as it seems there's nowhere left to turn. We go back all the way from the Grace Comm under Carter to the contemporary evaluations by OMB, etc. and the story stays the same…a 3rd of the money used for purposes other than strictly legislated and a 3rd unaccounted for. An overgrowth of autonomous bureaucratic opportunism. What better way to debase a nation's economy with boundless borrowing than to demoralize a people with ever-present irrepressible necessity. It's monumentally better than a mortal enemy. So why then is it a such a mystery that it's all tobacco to us? They told us so, so it must be.

Our fight is merely a skirmish, albeit a bitter and I think important one, in this larger contest with insurmountable government.

Good luck.

 

[stols001]

Yeah, I'm finally naturalized and was able to vote this election. I really didn't like ANY of my choices. Maybe Gary Johnson's running mate, he was so much more impressive than Gary Johnson, unfortunately. I mean, I voted for them, but I wasn't even happy about it, an also knew my vote made NO difference.

I do find it amusing that the US "sets up" democracies after killing off dictators.... And we don't even have one. A representative democracy just isn't a democracy. I only bothered to vote at all because a) I could and b) any vote not for the two parties had to be the right vote, because I've never seen a Southpark episode be so accurate about not only voting, but PETA. LOL.

Anna

 

[ScottP]

Yeah, I'm finally naturalized and was able to vote this election. I really didn't like ANY of my choices. Maybe Gary Johnson's running mate, he was so much more impressive than Gary Johnson, unfortunately. I mean, I voted for them, but I wasn't even happy about it, an also knew my vote made NO difference.

I do find it amusing that the US "sets up" democracies after killing off dictators.... And we don't even have one. A representative democracy just isn't a democracy. I only bothered to vote at all because a) I could and b) any vote not for the two parties had to be the right vote, because I've never seen a Southpark episode be so accurate about not only voting, but PETA. LOL.

Anna

A democracy would never work with 327 million people (current estimated US population). Can you imagine if every single decision required a full ballot vote? The problems we face today in government aren't as much a direct result of a representative democracy as it is how we have allowed money to corrupt it. Our current issues come primarily from three sources.

The first was when we fell into a 2 party system. George Washington even warned us not to fall into that trap but we did it anyway. I think we should abolish political parties completely. If someone wants to run for office they can, and they should run on their own merits and platforms without having to be beholden to a party.

The second source of problems comes from lobbyists and special interest groups with lots of money that are able to influence the government to act in their interest instead of the people they are supposed to represent. We absolutely MUST get rid of this influence in our government if we ever want it to make sense again. The problem with doing so is that the people that would have to make such laws are the very ones benefiting from the special interest money, the politicians.

The third source is that politicians have figured out how to "vote themselves rich". Have you ever wondered how a Congressman or Senator and can get elected, earn $174,000/yr and be multi-millionaires in just a few years? It's simple they invest in a company/industry that they are beholden to due to campaign contributions from their lobbyist, then write/sponsor a bill that helps that company/industry, then get that bill passed. Their lobbyist buddy is happy because they got what they wanted, and the politician essentially gets paid 3 times (campaign contributions, base salary, and investment payouts) for doing his work. The only difference between the two parties is which industries they are beholden to and thus support. The solution here is to fix the prior two problems, AND make it be considered "insider trading" to vote on a bill in which you have a financial interest in. Again the people that would have to pass this law are the very ones benefiting from this scam.

Is it any wonder that it often seems our government seems to act against OUR interests?

 

[Burnie]

A democracy would never work with 327 million people (current estimated US population). Can you imagine if every single decision required a full ballot vote? The problems we face today in government aren't as much a direct result of a representative democracy as it is how we have allowed money to corrupt it. Our current issues come primarily from three sources.

The first was when we fell into a 2 party system. George Washington even warned us not to fall into that trap but we did it anyway. I think we should abolish political parties completely. If someone wants to run for office they can, and they should run on their own merits and platforms without having to be beholden to a party.

The second source of problems comes from lobbyists and special interest groups with lots of money that are able to influence the government to act in their interest instead of the people they are supposed to represent. We absolutely MUST get rid of this influence in our government if we ever want it to make sense again. The problem with doing so is that the people that would have to make such laws are the very ones benefiting from the special interest money, the politicians.

The third source is that politicians have figured out how to "vote themselves rich". Have you ever wondered how a Congressman or Senator and can get elected, earn $174,000/yr and be multi-millionaires in just a few years? It's simple they invest in a company/industry that they are beholden to due to campaign contributions from their lobbyist, then write/sponsor a bill that helps that company/industry, then get that bill passed. Their lobbyist buddy is happy because they got what they wanted, and the politician essentially gets paid 3 times (campaign contributions, base salary, and investment payouts) for doing his work. The only difference between the two parties is which industries they are beholden to and thus support. The solution here is to fix the prior two problems, AND make it be considered "insider trading" to vote on a bill in which you have a financial interest in. Again the people that would have to pass this law are the very ones benefiting from this scam.

Is it any wonder that it often seems our government seems to act against OUR interests?

The only problem, is there is NO WAY to fix the system that is already in place, as if you vote them out, the ones that replace them keep the cycle going, it's a No Win Situation.

 

[ScottP]

The only problem, is there is NO WAY to fix the system that is already in place, as if you vote them out, the ones that replace them keep the cycle going, it's a No Win Situation.

As long as we keep voting for the same two parties, you are 100% correct. We need to, in one election vote 3rd parties across the board and send a clear message we are done being scammed.

 

[Bronze]

As long as we keep voting for the same two parties, you are 100% correct. We need to, in one election vote 3rd parties across the board and send a clear message we are done being scammed.

A third party = three corrupt parties

 

[stols001]

3rd party may well be corrupt, but it would be more interesting, kinda like Diplomacy, where everyone "makes" alliances and then backstabs each other.... I'm all for a third party, heck, even a 4th.

Anna

 

[Bronze]

3rd party may well be corrupt, but it would be more interesting, kinda like Diplomacy, where everyone "makes" alliances and then backstabs each other.... I'm all for a third party, heck, even a 4th.

Anna

It ends up being two parties because they enter agreements and align together.