I had problems just getting into it. Software bugs. Kept giving me a "permission denied" error or asking for a login User/Pass. Same link eventually worked though.
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Shawn there's one troubling thing here…if we find it difficult to trust natural monopoly what's compelling that gov as a single coercive monopoly (with the authority of force) can be trusted to do better? Doesn't this presume that citizens in that monopoly would be more ethical, innovative, resourceful, efficient, etc.…comprehensively superior than the rest of us?
I'd just as soon gov move out of the way and let us find the angels among us. We were doing just dandy as a market in vaping before they became concerned with our health.
I'm tired of gov, both party's, using us as a bargaining chip in their table games.
Good luck.
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I believe you missed the earlier posts leading to this one, or missed the point entirely...Shawn there's one troubling thing here…if we find it difficult to trust natural monopoly what's compelling that gov as a single coercive monopoly (with the authority of force) can be trusted to do better? Doesn't this presume that citizens in that monopoly would be more ethical, innovative, resourceful, efficient, etc.…comprehensively superior than the rest of us?
I'd just as soon gov move out of the way and let us find the angels among us. We were doing just dandy as a market in vaping before they became concerned with our health.
I'm tired of gov, both parties, using us as a bargaining chip in their table games.
Good luck.
The government is claiming that they're doing this "for the children." I was simply pointing out a variety of ways that the government could help "the children", but are blatantly not.
They're claims are thus rendered as bowl sheet (say it fast)...
It's about $
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Yup, they got rid of Joe Camel and just like that, all the underage smoking disappeared along with all the calls to end underage smoking.
Yes, cartoon labels can be held up by politicians as examples. Guess what, I’ve seen/heard them do it without the labels too. If we don’t fight the perception, with facts, we’ll never win. Most vapers aren’t in it to win though, they just want to be left with something, something they can pay taxes on and that the FDA won’t take away. If you think the soccer mom will be okay with strawberry flavored vapes as long as it comes in a plain brown box, you’ve got another think coming. The ONLY way to make her accept that it’s not a threat to her child is to convince her of the fact that it’s not a threat. Not an easy task. Especially since no one seems to be trying to do it.
Yes, cartoon labels can be held up by politicians as examples. Guess what, I’ve seen/heard them do it without the labels too. If we don’t fight the perception, with facts, we’ll never win. Most vapers aren’t in it to win though, they just want to be left with something, something they can pay taxes on and that the FDA won’t take away. If you think the soccer mom will be okay with strawberry flavored vapes as long as it comes in a plain brown box, you’ve got another think coming. The ONLY way to make her accept that it’s not a threat to her child is to convince her of the fact that it’s not a threat. Not an easy task. Especially since no one seems to be trying to do it.
We all know this whole thing is one great bowl of steaming sheets.
The real question is what can we do about it.
What have YOU done?
What have I done?
Agreed.... but once again:
The real question is what can we do about it.
What have YOU done?
What have I done?
Anarchy only works if it is en masse.
I educate daily... I vote... I fill out surveys... I fill out petitions... I do all I can.
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Anecdotally...I was vaping in the neighbors kitchen one day. His 45 year old daughter was there and she would wave the vapor away and make all kinds of faces indicating she was not at all pleased I was "smoking" near her. I tried explaining to her it was not smoke, but vapor and the differences. She wanted none of it. It was smoke to her. Her sister chimed in and tried telling her the same thing. Nope. Her mind was made up. It was smoke and it was invading her space and she was none too happy. There was no changing her mind.
Another one. Have a good friend. He smoked for 45 years and quit. Went to vaping. A year later he needed a quad bypass. He blamed it on vaping. Forget about the 45 years he smoked. He didn't need bypass until after he took up vaping. Therefore, vaping caused it. Nothing i said or cited changed his mind one iota.
We'll never win with these people and there are lots of them.
And if we ALL do that, it might make a slight difference.
I think the ultimate answer is to get REAL unbiased "Science" out there, with as much publicity as the Antz use.
FDA & FTC Target Vaping Companies for Alleged Deceptive Marketing
AVA applauds action, but warns agencies against declaring war on flavored vaping products
FDA & FTC Target Vaping Companies for Alleged Deceptive Marketing
AVA applauds action, but warns agencies against declaring war on flavored vaping products
FDA & FTC Target Vaping Companies for Alleged Deceptive Marketing
Science without $ in today's marketplace is worthless. I ain't got the money to comoete with the pharma lobby
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Agreed, I have a few in my circles as well. If a person's mind is closed, there is not much you can do to open it.
Nonetheless, we (including the media and credible Phd types) have to broadcast the truth, we have to undo the brainwashing that has already been done, or least prevent future brainwashing.
It is a battle of $$, and the Antz are throwing more money at it than we are.
Nobody proposes anarchy. A corrupt system is broken. I've stated my position frequently and vigorously (technically and politically)…fundamental laws must be applied. As long as we avoid this; yes, it is all rhetoric.
Good luck.
Perhaps my point is there are persuadable people and unpersuadable people. My two examples are those who are unpersuadable.
Neither do I, but as group we Vapers can, and we have the passion to succeed.
What we lack is organization.
I mean, the Royal College of Physicians and Public Health England reports have been out for years. They are known quantities by verifiable, respected organizations. One would think in the face of that hard science, the US, again, wanting to take care of its citizens, would be handing out vapes at stop smoking clinics nationally. My kids are all grown, but if my grandkids wanna experiment - as kids are wont to do, I'd much rather it was with something that is 95% less harmful. Further, they can experiment without any kind of addictive substance by choosing 0 nic. Show me a 0 nic combustible (that's legal in all the states).
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Nah... In my experience the majority of vapers lack any kind of passion beyond a handcheck. Most seem unable to read a manual or watch a YouTube video when their device starts acting up. Yeah, I'm a little bitter...
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"Save the children" is a smoke screen (no pun intended) and we all know it.
Its about the money, at many levels.
You do have a point.
We have the numbers though, and a subset of us with the passion.
CASA, AVA, others, try. We need something to band us all together before its too late.
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