Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[ScottP]

The only products really grandfathered in were products made before 2007.
Anything made 2007-2016 still needs an approved PMTA, which are due 2022.
Who knows if they will change that date...

While true, if any company is able to get something approved, I would suspect it would be Evolv. As mentioned they have been working closely with the FDA for a while now. I think they are actually helping to develop the standards for approval. I admit I do not have full insight into the nature of what they are doing for the FDA.

 

[zoiDman]

...

The real question is how will this impact tanks and rda's? ...

As for RTA's and RDA's, I think it is kinda Moot. Because in the Eyes of the FDA, I think the Last thing they want is a User being about to Make or Alter a Coil. So I Can't really see the FDA issuing a PMTA for Anything rebuildable.

A Coil Head tank? Maybe? But I kinda see them as having a Propriety Connection that pairs with a PMTA-ed Mod.

Seems like the Way it is heading, is that the FDA will Crack Down on Post 8-8-16 Products. And then there will be this Giant Uproar. Then it will all Die Down again and we'll go into that Limbo Period until 2022.

 

[mikepetro]

I could too. Especially considering the DNA 75C board was sold before that date and that is ALL I still use. Plus, I now have four HCigar VT 75D mods that use that board. Also all the DNA boards prior to the 75C are also grandfathered in and I >THINK< they also did some wizardry to get the 250C covered as well. All that combined with how they have been working with the FDA should mean that as a company they should be relatively OK. This means mods like the Jac mods, the HCigar mods, the LostVapes mods, and others that have been and still use these boards should be good as well. Same goes for the Yihi boards, and the mods that use them, that were out prior to this date.

This may kill the Gene boards and mods that use it though. It will also impact a LOT of Smok mods, Aspire mods, and other companies that are producing new boards for their mods. Which is really sad considering the improvements made in this time that probably make them actually safer.

The real question is how will this impact tanks and RDA's? I mean if you think about it they are all pretty much the same as what has been out since the beginning. I think they could all argue "Substantial Equivalence". I am not sure if this would fly or not, but really they are all a metal housing with a clamping system of some sort to hold coils, wick and liquid. There are really only two kinds of these. Those that allow consumer built coils and those that require factory built coils. Even if they consider RDA and RTA different, both types have been in use nearly since the beginning.

Evolv also had several designs that were built, sold and marketed (albeit not widely), prior to the 8/16 date. They were actually working around the clock (sleeping in their offices) in the months prior to the doomsday date to get stuff marketed to a few select customers, just enough to generate a paperwork trail to prove their existence. Many of these products have yet to be released to the public at large, but they would be legal.

 

[zoiDman]

... Then it will all Die Down again and we'll go into that Limbo Period until 2022.

ETA:

This is Based on a Trajectory where the HHS/FDA Leadership doesn't change in early 2021. As well a Congressional Majorities remaining relatively Unchanged.

 

[ScottP]

Evolv also had several designs that were built, sold and marketed (albeit not widely), prior to the 8/16 date. They were actually working around the clock (sleeping in their offices) in the months prior to the doomsday date to get stuff marketed to a few select customers, just enough to generate a paperwork trail to prove their existence. Many of these products have yet to be released to the public at large, but they would be legal.

I knew they did that with the 250C, I did not know there were products they did this with though. Wonder what they are.

 

[BillW50]

I knew they did that with the 250C, I did not know there were products they did this with though. Wonder what they are.

I bet Mike or anybody else who knows are not allowed to say. But you and I can maybe guess.

 

[mountainbikermark]

Even if Fox and CNN are both full of doesn't make them useless. Try watching both for awhile and it gives you a pretty good idea of where you stand in the spectrum. If you find yourself scratching your head a lot watching one more than the other then you know what direction you're located. More-so, You can learn what news you are missing when one or both of them refuse to cover stories you think are important to your life. I weight my news consumption both left and right (seeing there is next to nothing down the middle) and also broadcast and in print. Gotta say, I do a whole lot of head scratching wondering who buys a lot of the crap I see and read. You gotta be in an alternate universe to believe a lot of the poppycock they serve up. Additionally, I'm always floored at how much time some of these news outlets spend on issues that affect only a minuscule portion of the population...as if no other stories exist. Reminds me of sports coverage. I swear the only professional golfer is Tiger Woods!

But bottom line...news people are at least as seedy as the politicians. As I age, I believe they are worse to the point of being evil!

Tried that. Made me want to move to another country. Found the off button and now I'm glad to be an American again who votes for female k9ing rights if for no other reason.
My older brother had a poster on his wall when I was a kid that said "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" so I look at the weather app on my phone, listen to my coworkers talk about what sports team won what and my mother in law for what's going on in the world that pisses her off or keeps her from sleeping out of fear for local , state and national news. Thursday, my TV was showing end of the world scenario as Michael rolled across the southern US. I heard the wind howl, flipped over and went to sleep, cuz it was dark and there wasn't a darn thing more I could do but clean up after the storm finished going through. The sun came up the next morning and I'm still glad to be an American.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[FranC]

FDA to consider limiting e-cigarette sales to vape shops to curb youth use

 

[WorksForMe]

FDA to consider limiting e-cigarette sales to vape shops to curb youth use

I would think that big tobacco's lobbyists will do everything in their power to stop that from happening.


.

 

[zoiDman]

"We're looking at what can be sold in brick-and-mortar stores and whether or not flavored products can be sold in regular stores like a 7-Eleven and a truck stop and a gas station, or whether or not flavored products on the market should be confined to adult vaping shops, which generally tend to do a better job of checking ID," Gottlieb said.

FDA to consider limiting e-cigarette sales to vape shops to curb youth use

Big Wheel Keeps on Turnin'
Proud Mary keeps on Burnin'
Rollin'
Rollin'
Rollin' Down the River

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Anytime I was in a local vape shop they sold cheap crap at quality pricing and were sorely short on useful knowledge. Clouds Bro

 

[mikepetro]

Anytime I was in a local vape shop they sold cheap crap at quality pricing and were sorely short on useful knowledge. Clouds Bro

I would say most, but not all fit the above category. There are still a few around that are decent, but you will pay B&M pricing. Most are like cell phone companies, sell as much as you can whether it is suited to the user or not.

 

[FranC]

I'm more worried about the FDA shutting down online shopping. We don't have any reasonably priced vape shops in these parts.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I would say most, but not fit the above category. There are still a few around that are decent, but you will pay B&M pricing. Most are like cell phone companies, sell as much as you can whether it is suited to the user or not.

I understand normal B&M pricing reasons since I own a small business myself, but the local vape shops here are just outright gouging. Unfortunately the mom and pop one I went to years ago which was the first in town is no longer around. When I could get something I wanted there I bought it there to support a local business even though I could have bought it online for less.

 

[mikepetro]

I'm more worried about the FDA shutting down online shopping. We don't have any reasonably priced vape shops in these parts.

That plus, online sources help keep B&M from gouging even worse than they do.

 

[FranC]

That plus, online sources help keep B&M from gouging even worse than they do.

For joy..........

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I'm more worried about the FDA shutting down online shopping. We don't have any reasonably priced vape shops in these parts.

I am still not understanding why the FDA even mentions online shops when he clearly says the problem lies with the b&m's. Ok. Fine or close down the b&m's for selling to minors and move on. If he/FDA cannot prove the online vendors have broken the law why even target/mention them? It is like he just wanted to throw that in there to keep the antz quiet or something. Jerk.

 

[ScottP]

Sounds to me more like they are focusing this on "flavored" products meaning prefilled pods and eliquid. So mods and RDAs/RTAs may still be safe. It also sounds like they may leave flavors LEGAL but only available in vape shops. Not being able to buy juice online may hurt a bit, but not as bad as a total flavor ban.

Here is the most relevant part:

Many teens are illegally buying e-cigarettes, including the most popular one, Juul, in convenience stores, Gottlieb said. To confront the issue, he said, regulators could limit sales of flavored e-cigarette products to vape shops.

"We're looking at what can be sold in brick-and-mortar stores and whether or not flavored products can be sold in regular stores like a 7-Eleven and a truck stop and a gas station, or whether or not flavored products on the market should be confined to adult vaping shops, which generally tend to do a better job of checking ID," Gottlieb said.

 

[Bronze]

When someone is given power they feel they must do something. Many times, the best thing to do is nothing or take away what had been done previously. Gottlieb is no different than any of them. He was made FDA chief and, therefore, he must make a splash and do something about vaping instead of just doing nothing or removing past regulations. And it has nothing to do with how they felt prior to getting power. They change once they get it. Their isn't much glory or attention in doing nothing or doing less.

The late, great Miles Davis was criticized by music purists for writing in silent notes in his music. Places in a song where he paused for a beat. His response was essentially that no note is still a note.

 

[BillW50]

Well Sugar_and_Spice, I don't buy any of this its about the kids. I talked to my niece and nephew and they said nobody is vaping in their schools. As they are smoking instead. And they said it is easy to get cigarettes. As older teens who can purchase cigarettes legally sells them to younger teens.

What the FDA is really up to is to protect BT and using kids as a shield. The real agenda is to make it so hard for adults and current teen smokers to have any access to vape products, that they'll be forced to switch back to (or stay) smoking.