Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[AXIOM_1]

which eyeball is BT?

or is it you and zoid?

 

[DPLongo22]

which eyeball is BT?

Unfortunately, neither.

 

[Baditude]

which eyeball is BT?

Does it really matter?

 

[AXIOM_1]

Does it really matter?

absolutely...I want to know which one to shoot

 

[DPLongo22]

or is it you and zoid?

Symbolic of all current vapers, I believe.

The truth is that I hate this.

I've literally shed tears for some already, and know some more are coming. Some very good people (and we all know some), that SHOULD be benefiting from the growth of something they helped create, are getting shafted.

I'd rather be cheering them than crying for them, but the latter is almost sure to be the case. To the past and future "Isaacs" of the industry, we salute you. We thank you too. You deserve better, at least in my opinion.



Tears of a clown, mine.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Unfortunately, neither.

View attachment 787459

oh, the illuminati … well in that case, I will shoot both eyeballs

 

[Brewdawg1181]

But see here's the Deal... There Isn't going to be any Small Companies in a Fully Regulated Market.

They're just going to be Priced Out of the Market. All there is going to be is BT and BV (Big vape). And BV is only going to be Marginally Better than BT.

Yes, we're in agreement here. That's why I said this part.

II just think this hastens the death knell for mom & pops.

The purchase only makes that happen faster.

 

[440BB]

I've been expecting BT closed systems to slide right in to the shelf space that is filled with cigarettes for some time, and this is actually occurring slower than I thought it would. The BT partnership with government through taxation will continue with different products. I doubt any of us is surprised at this point.

Smokers will be able to quit using pods but the cost will be comparable to smoking, lessening the incentive.

Gottlieb made it clear that existing adult smokers and vapers are not all that important to the FDA.

 

[DPLongo22]

Gottlieb made it clear that existing adult smokers and vapers are not all that important to the FDA.

For now.

The next time I trust an elected (or appointed) legislator/official will be my first time.

 

[Rossum]

Eventually we may see a market very close to what we see with smokes. Everything looks the same, vapes the same, and only minor differences between products A and Z. We'll see. I hope I'm wrong, but to be dead honest - I don't really care. I know what I'll be vaping until they put me wherever they're going to put me.

Could there be a parallel to the development of smoking? Originally, most tobacco smoking was done via various pipes. These were reusable, often quite durable, but did require considerable maintenance. In addition, there were many variants. I've often thought that vaping as we've known it is more akin to pipe smoking that cigarette smoking.

Will vaping transition to a more standardized form like smoking did for most people when cigarettes became popular not much more than 100 years ago? Maybe. I suspect a lot of current smokers don't want to deal with the fuss that many of us have come to accept as normal; rebuilding, re-wicking, cleaning, etc. For them a product with a pre-filled, throw-away pod such as a Juul might be just the ticket.

Just don't try to take away my "pipes", or I promise you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Philabos]

Something we don't see is a push to strictly enforce proof of age when purchasing tobacco cigarettes or e-cigarettes. If you are 18 or over it's legal. Below 18, it's against the law. Strictly enforcing proof of age using a drivers license as the legal proof would solve all or most of the problem with under-age teens smoking or vaping.

Yes, their friends will buy for them. That happened when I was a high school student. That, and it's much more easy to make a fake drivers license with Photoshop these days than it was when we were teens.

While I enthusiastically agree with you, it's not going to happen. Many jurisdictions don't even go after drug dealers anymore. Enforcement at the street level is just too hard. Much easier to just ban outright. Of course, that doesn't work either but the bureaucrats can claim action.
Just to give you an idea how the enforcement bureaucracy works, I recently had a chat with a beer store manager who had a visit from the bureaucratic enforcers. They spent the afternoon trying to find a violation. Coming up empty handed, they finally wrote her up for not having a plastic cover over the beer license.
A bit off topic, but that's the real world.

 

[Katdarling]

Something we don't see is a push to strictly enforce proof of age when purchasing tobacco cigarettes or e-cigarettes. If you are 18 or over it's legal. Below 18, it's against the law. Strictly enforcing proof of age using a drivers license as the legal proof would solve all or most of the problem with under-age teens smoking or vaping.

Yes, their friends will buy for them. That happened when I was a high school student. That, and it's much more easy to make a fake drivers license with Photoshop these days than it was when we were teens.

This. And truly this.

Where IS the focus?

Stocked up, ready (thank you, @Katdarling!) , and as always, locked & loaded.

Screw 'em.

Thank YOU, DP of L. And MaH pleasure.

It also could help bring them favor with legislators (money talks, bulldong walks), giving them even more power over a market they already have a significant slice of.


I'm sure glad that I was born in 1961, and not 2011. I'll say that much.

OMG, you're old. What's a bulldong?

I'm thinking that's an unlikely scenario. We were all fortunate enough to stumble in on vaping's Golden Age. As market penetration increases, it's likely we'll see innovation (as WE know it) decrease. There will be other innovations, for sure, but I'll be stunned if anyone's as lucky as we've been.

THIS was/is FUN.

Smoking will die, one day, and vaping will be the vice in its place. I've very little doubt of that, but I don't know if I'll make it to see the completion. Regardless, I'm happy.

You shall. Because I shall.

Done deal.

 

[stols001]

About that poor, addicted with few treatment options teen thing.....

I have/had been begging my insurance companies for over a decade to pay for an inpatient 30 day tobacco cessation rehab. They were all really happy to tell me no. So I don't feel so bad for those teenagers since their "addiction" is my "treatment." They can take Chantix and/or the patch or ALL the different options that were available to US. They can go get hypnotized. Or, they can o cold turkey. I do not feel bad for them ONE WHIT although I do feel some badness toward whoever wrote that article.

About that Regan quote, well I guess the FDA is doing two things, taxing the teenagers who want to buy ecigs, and subsidizing the homeless. It's a direct, 1:1 non government intervention kind of tax,, and subsidy. It may even have LOWER OPERATING costs that social security.

I like social security for some reasons and AMONG them is the fact that 1% of their income goes to administration costs, including SSDI and all else. That's rather impressive. It would also be JUST FINE if the government would never have raided the coffers.

I digress I Just Hate the Government, sometimes.

Anna

 

[DPLongo22]

What's a bulldong?

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD Kitty!

 

[CMD-Ky]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD Kitty!

Where is the "Report" button?

 

[DaveP]

There's lots of savvy in the article below.

Big Tobacco & Big Pharma vs Vaping (Part 2) - Being Libertarian

How exactly is vaping a threat to Big Tobacco? Let’s crunch some numbers:

1. In 2013, Big Tobacco saw their largest decline in cigarette shipments since 2009, and many financial analysts stated the cause of that decline was e-cigarettes. In 2012, Americans bought more than 14 billion packs of tobacco cigarettes and 200,000 e-cigarette packs, whilst in 2013 sales of cigarette packs decreased by 1 billion, and e-cigarette sales doubled.
2. Wells Fargo Bank has estimated that sales of cigarettes will decline by 68% in the next 10 years, whilst e-cigarette sales will increase over 13 times.
3. One other interesting fact is that Big Pharma is also being affected as Glaxo Kline Smith, the makers of Nicorette Gum, had a memo leaked showing they are lobbying for stricter regulations on e-cigarettes which compete against smoking cessation products. This is a great example of how regulations can be used by big businesses to squash competition from smaller entities.

 

[Rossum]

There's lots of savvy in the article below.

Big Tobacco & Big Pharma vs Vaping (Part 2) - Being Libertarian

This article is flawed. It claims that nicotine is optional in DIY liquid, while flavors are always used. I see it as quite the opposite.

 

[DPLongo22]

Where is the "Report" button?

They took mine away. They said I wasn't worthy.

OMG! I think it's somebody's birthday today!!!!

 

[BillW50]

This article is flawed. It claims that nicotine is optional in DIY liquid, while flavors are always used. I see it as quite the opposite.

I see both nicotine and flavorings as optional.

 

[DPLongo22]

This article is flawed. It claims that nicotine is optional in DIY liquid, while flavors are always used. I see it as quite the opposite.

I see both nicotine and flavorings as optional.

Vaping is optional.