Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Eskie]

I've seen some reports that way, and the fungicide in question breaks down when heated - to hydrogen cyanide. Uh, not good...

Lots of things do. Even in cigarettes. Based on my very limited reading, so I can't point to a reference, the amounts involved in the concentrations of fungicide found are orders of magnitude lower than in cigarettes. Also, cyanide poisoning doesn't get you through damage to your lungs, so while it sounds all scary, it's not likely a factor in this outbreak, other than perhaps as a marker that chemical is in there. As an aside, burning certain plastics produces large amounts of cyanide as well.

 

[Katya]

Mayo Clinic: Vaping Illness Not What We Thought It Was

Interesting........ Wonder if it is the fungicide.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/10/03/vaping-lung-injuries-top-cases-deaths-rise/

The routine way of processing tissues can remove lipids, and when that happens, it masks the characteristics of lipoid pneumonia. “You won’t be able to see the lipid” in the immune cells, he said.

So they removed the lipids from the tissue samples during processing........

[Info from another thread posted by @iVapeDIY --sorry for cross-posting, but it should be here also.]

 

[Katya]

And this gem! Thanks, @iVapeDIY

New study: Not one vaping illness linked to legal e-cigarette pods (...)

"Foamy macrophages and foamy pneumocytes" were found by the researchers to be "universally" present in vaping injuries, and the study specifically notes that illicit drugs "have been associated with foamy macrophage accumulation." Combined with the prevalence of marijuana use in the patients, the likelihood that marijuana use in these cases are severely underreported, and that patients fessing up to vaping high concentrations of THC had more urgent injuries, it's looking increasingly likely that black market, laced vape pods are in fact the culprit behind the recent outbreak. (...)

​

​

 

[AttyPops]

So they removed the lipids from the tissue samples during processing........

Maybe. "They" being whomever collected the samples, I suppose. I would think that The Mayo Clinic dept specializing in lung disease would know better, so I'm assuming that the lipids where gone before they got them.

-or-

Multiple problems going on.

 

[dc99]

New York State Flavor Ban PAUSED

 

[Blitzdonlife]

New York State Flavor Ban PAUSED

Finally something positive, good deal. I hope the judges ruling is fair.

 

[zelda]

 

[Katdarling]

I've seen some reports that way, and the fungicide in question breaks down when heated - to hydrogen cyanide. Uh, not good...

From the Wiki.

Myclobutanil is a triazole chemical used as a fungicide. It is a steroid demethylation inhibitor, specifically inhibiting ergosterol biosynthesis.[1] Ergosterol is a critical component of fungal cell membranes. When heated, myclobutanil decomposes to produce corrosive and/or toxic fumes, including carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, hydrogen chloride, hydrogen cyanide, and nitrogen oxides.

Myclobutanil - Wikipedia

 

[Baditude]

Maybe. "They" being whomever collected the samples, I suppose. I would think that The Mayo Clinic dept specializing in lung disease would know better, so I'm assuming that the lipids where gone before they got them.

-or-

Multiple problems going on.

The "missing bullet" in JFK's assassination conspiracy theory. Hmmmm.

 

[DarrenMG]

It's not a binary, it's a spectrum.

I do like science and proper methodology, as a layperson. And I do try not to project my current anger into a (what I perceive as) neutral statement.

But that doesn't mean I don't ask questions, nor does it mean that they won't do a "lessons learned" once all this shakes out.

Agree, aka, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Information takes time. I guess news agencies need to make greater use of "This is a developing story" tag line, to remind people, it's not the final info.

 

[Eskie]

Now that's a big deal. If that accelerated PMTA date gets reset to the original "delayed" 2022 date, that's a ton more playing room to deal with all this. Hopefully by then the THC pulmonary thing will have been worked out and not adding fuel to the fire over the risks associated with "vaping".

I really hate that the word vaping has extended so far beyond aerosolized nicotine liquid used to stop smoking,

Agree, aka, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Information takes time. I guess news agencies need to make greater use of "This is a developing story" tag line, to remind people, it's not the final info.

Everything these days is a "developing story" The problem is the average person has the attention span of a two year old and forgot they even knew about the story to begin with.

 

[Rossum]

Now that's a big deal. If that accelerated PMTA date gets reset to the original "delayed" 2022 date, that's a ton more playing room to deal with all this. Hopefully by then the THC pulmonary thing will have been worked out and not adding fuel to the fire over the risks associated with "vaping".

That's a big "if". With the current atmosphere, I'm not confident the FDA would push the date back again even if the next court up the food chain allowed them to do so.

I really hate that the word vaping has extended so far beyond aerosolized nicotine liquid used to stop smoking,

+1000.

 

[Bronze]

I really hate that the word vaping has extended so far beyond aerosolized nicotine liquid used to stop smoking,

I'm surprised I haven't thrown a brick thru my TV yet when I watch news reports not clarifying the REAL cause of these deaths. At least some of them have called it, "vape-related" deaths instead of just vaping deaths. Still not good enough.

 

[Eskie]

That's a big "if". With the current atmosphere, I'm not confident the FDA would push the date back again even if the next court up the food chain allowed them to do so.
.

It's a tough call. Remember, we're still dealing with bureaucrats. And one thing they hate is having their plans altered. Changing the date earlier means messing up the plans for the whole review process. They have money slotted for 2022 to begin the review, likely with a line for salaries to bring on enough people to process them all, even if every single one is rejected. They have to show they at least made an effort to read them and offer up a lame excuse what the problems with the application are.

Moving it earlier means changes in funding, hiring, printing up forms, getting their database software set to handle electronic submissions (which means whoever they awarded the contract to for development, if that's even been done yet), and so on. I'm not sure the regular employees are too thrilled about anything that may now require overtime to implement. After all, they do just work for the government.

 

[Buckeyevapen]

What the hell is happening?!? Good grief. Why can’t these “decision makers” see that there is a MASSIVE difference between black market other stuff liquified and cut with heaven knows what so that it can injected into a vaporizer cart and what we here and millions of others are doing?!?

and the correct answer is: they don’t want to because there is no money to be made in it. Maybe these states shouldn’t have taken out lump sum loans on their Master settlement amounts and they wouldn’t be starving for tax revenue and vilifying a technology that’s SAVING LIVES

QQ: how bout that good ol opioid crisis? Probably save a few lives if we started banning those, right?

Again the correct answer is: they don’t want to, no money to be made.

 

[DarrenMG]

I'm surprised I haven't thrown a brick thru my TV yet when I watch news reports not clarifying the REAL cause of these deaths. At least some of them have called it, "vape-related" deaths instead of just vaping deaths. Still not good enough.

Be careful about shooting the messenger, or your TV. They are just passing on info. Be angry at the media for passing on info is just another politician trick so you aren't angry at the politicians, those who make laws.

Problem is good luck with getting anything out of the CDC or FDA.

 

[Bronze]

Be careful about shooting the messenger, or your TV. They are just passing on info. Be angry at the media for passing on info is just another politician trick so you aren't angry at the politicians, those who make laws.

Problem is good luck with getting anything out of the CDC or FDA.

I make no distinction between the media and politicians...particularly of one party.

 

[DarrenMG]

I make no distinction between the media and politicians...particularly of one party.

They have entirely different goals, but I will write this. The last thing any politician really wants is no media, because their words would never get out, but yes, some politicians would prefer state run media only, only message how great I am! Vote for me again!

For me, thanks but no thanks. I am good with a 'free' press. The First, #1, Amendment. It does not mean they have to pass on only good news or correct news, but the just the freedom to pass on news. We can always turn it off if it offends.

 

[puffon]

Be careful about shooting the messenger, or your TV. They are just passing on info. Be angry at the media for passing on info is just another politician trick so you aren't angry at the politicians, those who make laws.

Problem is good luck with getting anything out of the CDC or FDA.

Seems the media was not passing on correct info that doesn't fit their narrative here:

 

[DarrenMG]

Let me clarify, the media is not making laws that affect us. The laws that do affect us are made by lawmakers. Hold your lawmakers accountable for being idiots, blaming the media is just giving them a pass to be idiots.

Yes stuff in the media can be misleading, why again are you giving law makers a pass for being unintelligent? Why give consumers of media a pass? Personal responsibility ... a dead concept.