Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

LoveVanilla

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Conley's comment was in the context of a vape shop selling armloads of devices for subsequent individual (i.e. underage) resale. Conley nailed it and njoy seemed to have our back. We needed more reps at the table to counter the "ban the vape" babies. Convenience store reps seemed happy to throw us to the wolves and juul's statements were decidedly unsupportive.

Reminds me of another important consideration. I do not believe online sales were ever discussed. Yes/No? Seems very odd to me... Where the hell is that going? Unlikely but maybe Trump might think he has the tiger via tariff leverage?
 
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WorksForMe

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Reminds me of another important consideration. I do not believe online sales were ever discussed. Yes/No? Seems very odd to me... Where the hell is that going? Unlikely but maybe Trump might think he has the tiger via tariff leverage?

I didn't hear anything about that in the meeting today. There is still a bill in the Senate that would add vapor products to the PACT Act. It has 26 cosponsors now. An identical bill already passed the House. I don't know if Trump will sign it, if it passes the Senate.
 

englishmick

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I took it as to mean Stopping a person from say being able buying 1,000 Empty Pods. As a way to Combat Black Market Sales.

That comment wasn't very clear. It's a general problem with that kind of meeting format, I used to attend meetings with decision makers when I worked in software. You have a guy at the top of the table who has to make a decision. And a whole bunch of people around the table with different agendas, who only have a few minutes to make their points. Conley had to throw in as much information as he could, not even knowing how long he would have before he got cut off. Trump did ask him a couple of questions that suggested he was taking in what he was hearing.

From the bits and pieces I saw I didn't get any picture of how Trump was reacting to the different stuff being thrown at him. And he will be getting plenty more from advisers in different settings. Guess we just have to wait.
 

LoveVanilla

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Some off-the-record backstory here:

T joked about firing Azar...

Trump left the room in a buoyant mood, one senior administration official said, and turned to Azar. "Great meeting!" he told the health secretary.
 
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stols001

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but he seemed more preoccupied with black market liquids coming in from Mexico, which he cited as an example once or twice.

To be fair, plenty of things "banned" in Mexico perhaps also make their way in but I think Trump should be worried about our neighbors to the North.

To be fair, the idea of a Canadian black market in ecigs sort of makes me laugh, but then I think, "Ice Hockey retirees need a future too."

Given the choice, I would take Canadian vapes any day. Although it does make me a bit paranoid about how many vapes I have visible to border agents now. Can't be too careful.

Dogs like the smells of sweet, delicious flavors too.

Anna
 

Baditude

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Some off-the-record backstory here:

T joked about firing Azar...
I think Trump actually enjoys creating controversy and chaos for the benefit of the media and his opponents. Its like he's still on his reality TV show and he's creating a cliffhanger controversey to boost ratings for the next show.

The way he was asking direct questions to the anti-vaping groups on what should he do, he already knew what their answer was going to be: Ban flavors or ban vaping altogether. I got the feeling he was giving lip service to them and give them the impression of not ignoring them entirely.

He seemed to ask the vape industry advocates more detail oriented questions on how we could keep vapes out of the hands of kids yet still benefit adults and save jobs. I got the feeling that saving jobs is still extremely important to him.
 
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bnrkwest

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I think Trump actually enjoys creating controversy and chaos for the benefit of the media and his opponents. Its like he's still on his reality TV show and he's creating a cliffhanger controversey to boost ratings for the next show.

The way he was asking direct questions to the anti-vaping groups on what should he do, he already knew what their answer was going to be: Ban flavors or ban vaping altogether. I got the feeling he was giving lip service to them and give them the impression of not ignoring them entirely.

He seemed to ask the vape industry advocates more detail oriented questions on how we could keep vapes out of the hands of kids yet still benefit adults and save jobs. I got the feeling that saving jobs is still extremely important to him.
I actually liked how DT handled the meeting, and I am not a fan, but he kept control by asking each person, what would you do. I think he liked the fawning he got from the fan groups, even the mom's against vaping. He's thinking votes, so not sure what he will decide, what group can he offend and still keep his voting fan base. But pretty sure 21 age limit is a definite.
 
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stols001

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Look I know some folks on here have claimed to like, raise super, awesome, trouble free teenagers, who go on to have beautiful lives with never a dull moment.

I'm not saying I disbelieve them. I am saying.... there are times I imagine I might find like, such persons to be lovely, wonderful, fine upstanding citizens and also deeply, deeply boring.

I will admit to have having had the thought there are some people so responsible and just all around A plus people that I've considered suggesting drugs, just so they'd get a personality. I never did it, mainly because I made that suggestion to my little brother, just kind of casually, like "You like to eat, you like to be lazy, MJ is the drug for you...."

And the NEXT thing I hear, he's gone on some MJ debacle and like, cheated on his GF, and they broke up for a while and I was deeply horrified with myself as an older sister.

I mean, he's a musician, he would have tried them anyway at some point. But I prefer not to feel personally responsible for such episodes, so I refrain.

I'm just saying it takes all types and the rebellious are gonna rebel.

The only way teens will resume smoking is if every adult and EVERY parent takes up vaping. They will rebel, all right.

I am also saying as the proud mother of a rebellious teen who turned out great and I find very entertaining and can talk to for a long time....

There were times I wondered if parenting the monster teen was worse than BEING the monster teen, and like, every time, no matter HOW old I get, I go "Nope, I'd pay the bail and lawyer money happily and the lawyers since *I* was not the one attending probation with a felony over my head, etc."

Being a rebellious teen and having to grow out of it is kind of its own punishment, honestly. I promise!

Being parent is like punishment 2 for being dumb enough to spawn yourself, instead of cut your gene pool off at the knees. Although, it's around, so maybe it's good (evolutionarily at least) for SOMETHING. Or maybe the rebellious spawn young, too young to know there is something wrong with them. IDK.

But those who do not understand the nature of the rebellious teen brain is that you have to DO THE EXACT opposite of what it is INTERESTED in, and do it CONVINCINGLY.

I await your response, Mother's Against Intrepid Vaping Evil Moms. You need to start inhaling and since you are all great cooks, (maybe) I might trade vape gear for recipes. Although I don't trust you because you think your child should be reasonable, so no.

The only way to stop rebellious teens vaping is to make it like flip flops and white knee high socks with shorts.

BTW, this in no way implies that octogenarians should start wearing their jeans around their knees, instead of their nipples. It is dangerous. They might trip and fall. Scenery would degenerate ALARMINGLY.

Vaping is a lot less dangerous than tripping and falling on pants, so you'd think the concerned mothers would at least make the EFFORT but NOOoooo….LOL

Anna
 

Katya

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I am SORRY but there is this separation of church and state thing and Romney is MORMON. Someone whose religion will not allow the imbibing of COFFEE has NO BUSINESS in a vape advocate meeting, let alone ANY meeting on DRUGS EVER.

Sorry, I disagree. If that were true, President Obama, a smoker and admitted past drug user would have opposed every anti-tobacco and anti-vaping bill, including the Deeming. He could have done so much to help us because he knew and understood cigarette addiction and how hard it is for some people to quit.
And yes, I hold that to be true as far as like, Catholics and abortion.

Let me remind you that a very Catholic Gov. Cuomo recently signed a bill legalizing abortion until the moment of birth. Many pro-abortion folks have a problem with that practice.
I don't know if it's Romney's enthusiastic agreement that tips him off. He hides it well, but that is a man who can smell a bull in heat many, many miles away. SO I still have SOME hope.

My take: Romney had a prominent seat at the table because of the possibility of a Senate trial on the articles of impeachment. If that happens, Romney is a juror. Trump doesn't need his advice on vaping--but he may be guilty of jury tampering. ;)
 

stols001

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I suppose those are fair points, some folks can put aside their own biases when the chips fall.

I don't really know enough about deeming or not deeming to know what role Obama did or did not play, honestly. I am fairly new to it. I never got the impression Obama was entirely ashamed of his tobacco habit either. Although I must say if he was much more than an occasional smoker IDK how he got through some of those endless meetings, man. I doubt nicotine lozenges would have cut it (for me.)

But I do think there are definitely politicians who run on more religious type platforms and who do so sort of unabashedly. Whether that's better or worse than running on lobbying money or a desire for power, I'm not entirely sure.

But food for thought. :thumbs:

Anna
 

Katya

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I don't really know enough about deeming or not deeming to know what role Obama did or did not play, honestly. I am fairly new to it.

From CASAA timeline:
June 2009:
  • President Obama signs into law the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, giving the FDA the power to regulate the tobacco industry. Although nicotine and cigarettes as a whole cannot be banned outright, flavoring such as fruit or mint can. Additionally, new tobacco products seeking to enter the market will be required to meet FDA pre-market standards, which could affect electronic cigarette regulation.
IDK how he got through some of those endless meetings, man.

Nicorette. :)

And, iirc, he was gifted at least one PV by someone...
 
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stols001

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Oh my, I had NO IDEA I was unaware of one more huge reason to like, not be a fan of that dude. LOL. I work in the healthcare field and if there were a way to spend MORE tax dollars on the "uninsured" while penalizing the working family in a more complicated, irrational, and schizophrenic way I don't believe I could figure that out.

I am trying to give a thumb's up and a thumb's down at the same time.

I am going to bet Obama thought he was "too good" for vaping. IDK I always got that vibe from him, kinda.

Anna
 

Bronze

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I think Trump actually enjoys creating controversy and chaos for the benefit of the media and his opponents. Its like he's still on his reality TV show and he's creating a cliffhanger controversey to boost ratings for the next show.

The way he was asking direct questions to the anti-vaping groups on what should he do, he already knew what their answer was going to be: Ban flavors or ban vaping altogether. I got the feeling he was giving lip service to them and give them the impression of not ignoring them entirely.

He seemed to ask the vape industry advocates more detail oriented questions on how we could keep vapes out of the hands of kids yet still benefit adults and save jobs. I got the feeling that saving jobs is still extremely important to him.
The two issues Trump appeared most interested were jobs and the black market. No question. Look for Trump to use the black market defense when he’s accused of not caring about kids.
 

AttyPops

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I didn't hear anything about that in the meeting today. There is still a bill in the Senate that would add vapor products to the PACT Act. It has 26 cosponsors now. An identical bill already passed the House. I don't know if Trump will sign it, if it passes the Senate.

Can someone help me decode this part????
listing changes:
"(2) in section 2A(b)(1) (15 U.S.C. 376a(b)(1)), by inserting “NICOTINE/” after “CIGARETTES/”."

Here's the link to the bill from WorksForMe's link [USC02] 15 USC 376a: Delivery sales

I guess I'm stupid, because finding section 2A(b)(1) confused me. But this, I think, would impact online order delivery of nicotine.

The rest of the changes I understood.

EDIT:
The only reference to "CIGARETTES/" is in the top section about labeling. So maybe it's nothing if that's the section, it's just talking about taxes and labeling the package as containing nicotine.

So it would read:
"(1) Required statement
For any shipping package containing cigarettes or smokeless tobacco, the delivery seller shall include on the bill of lading, if any, and on the outside of the shipping package, on the same surface as the delivery address, a clear and conspicuous statement providing as follows: "CIGARETTES/NICOTINE/SMOKELESS TOBACCO: FEDERAL LAW REQUIRES THE PAYMENT OF ALL APPLICABLE EXCISE TAXES, AND COMPLIANCE WITH APPLICABLE LICENSING AND TAX-STAMPING OBLIGATIONS".

"Tax Stamping Obligations"? This would imply stamping regulation would apply. E.G. Tax Stamps.

I think this is all getting back to the "Signature required" thing, and the USPS not delivering such, too. I suspect. But tax-stamps? That could cause retailers problems if they require it for nic. ????
 
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Iron Molly

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Can someone help me decode this part????
listing changes:
"(2) in section 2A(b)(1) (15 U.S.C. 376a(b)(1)), by inserting “NICOTINE/” after “CIGARETTES/”."

Here's the link to the bill from WorksForMe's link [USC02] 15 USC 376a: Delivery sales

I guess I'm stupid, because finding section 2A(b)(1) confused me. But this, I think, would impact online order delivery of nicotine.

The rest of the changes I understood.

EDIT:
The only reference to "CIGARETTES/" is in the top section about labeling. So maybe it's nothing if that's the section, it's just talking about taxes and labeling the package as containing nicotine.

So it would read:


"Tax Stamping Obligations"? This would imply stamping regulation would apply. E.G. Tax Stamps.

I think this is all getting back to the "Signature required" thing, and the USPS not delivering such, too. I suspect. But tax-stamps? That could cause retailers problems if they require it for nic. ????

Tax stamps would be a BIG problem, because they consider coils, tanks, pv's, etc. to be nicotine containing items. How the heck would that even work?
 

Pigs

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In my opinion, the guy from NJOY argued our case much better than Greg. Greg's style wasn't the best for that kind of meeting; he pretty much hung back.

I don't know what is giong to come out of this.
It would take a lot of experience to master that type of meeting and make the most of your small windows of opportunity. Playing to Trump's narcissism and at the same time getting the most important points across - like walking a tightrope. I agree Greg hung back at times when he shouldn't have and possibly came across as a little aggressive at others. Still I want to thank him for his efforts on our behalf. What a nest of vipers the world of politics is.
 

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