Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[zoiDman]

You see it in the headlines
You hear it ever day
They say they're gonna stop it
But it doesn't go away

They move it through Miami, sell it in L.A.
They hide it up in Telluride
I mean it's here to stay

It's propping up the governments in Columbia and Peru
You ask any D.E.A. man
He'll say "there's nothin' we can do"
From the office of the President
Right down to me and you,

Me and You

It's a losing proposition
But one you can't refuse
It's the politics of contraband
It's the Smuggler's Blues

 

[zoiDman]

Funny how One System that was implemented to do One Thing has caused problems Doing Another.

FDA Won’t Enforce Pre-Market Review Requirement for E-Liquid Packaging Modified to Incorporate “Flow Restrictors” | The Continuum of Risk

Compliance Policy for Limited Modifications

 

[englishmick]

Funny how One System that was implemented to do One Thing has caused problems Doing Another.

FDA Won’t Enforce Pre-Market Review Requirement for E-Liquid Packaging Modified to Incorporate “Flow Restrictors” | The Continuum of Risk

Compliance Policy for Limited Modifications

What are flow restrictors?

 

[AttyPops]

I suppose it's a setup such that the dispensing of nic from a bottle would be rate limited. So a baby can't grab a bottle of nic and drink much from it very fast.

The solution, of course, is child-safe caps which most in the industry already use. And the dripper top would be a flow restriction too I'd assume.

 

[Eskie]

It's also why glass bottles with droppers are disappearing (probably explains all those Naked juice sales) Even though it came with a child resistant dropper top, once opened you could dump the juice right out. I think I've seen some glass bottles with some sorta silicone plug that is supposed to restrict the rate it could pour out, but it's likely cheaper and easier to go with the plastic Gorilla/unicorn style bottles with narrow tips so you can't squeeze the entire bottle out with one push or accidental drop.

 

[Pigs]

The green is hard to see.Stop that.

Isn't it red?

 

[stols001]

I normally read this whole thread but I got annoyed by the nic good/bad/indifferent.

You know what? You just have to decide for yourself. We don't have a longitudinal STUDY yet, Until we do we have to read the literature positive and negative (and hopefully like, with some sort of scientific basis in mind) and go from there.

BUT I do think nic for teens is a lot less HARMFUL than many things in our society do not like to talk about:

teens who get abused/neglected/underfed/under cared for/sexually abused, etc. Oh we don't like it, and we catch it when we can. Sometimes the "cure" is worse.

Parents doing drugs with kids in Utero. Happens every Damn Day, more than once.

Parents teaching their kids to shoot up, whatever, to either have company or SHUT them up.

Lice, bedbugs, poor hygiene, terrible parenting practices, beatings, burnings, scars.

Children so miserable they are harming themselves or trying to commit suicide.

That is what I think of when I think about "risks to teens."

VAPING is just not really high on my list of priorities.

Anna

 

[CMD-Ky]

I debated whether is was an agree post or winner post. Whichever one chooses, the post should be broadcast near and far; every phrase is concise, to the point and correct.

I normally read this whole thread but I got annoyed by the nic good/bad/indifferent.

You know what? You just have to decide for yourself. We don't have a longitudinal STUDY yet, Until we do we have to read the literature positive and negative (and hopefully like, with some sort of scientific basis in mind) and go from there.

BUT I do think nic for teens is a lot less HARMFUL than many things in our society do not like to talk about:

teens who get abused/neglected/underfed/under cared for/sexually abused, etc. Oh we don't like it, and we catch it when we can. Sometimes the "cure" is worse.

Parents doing drugs with kids in Utero. Happens every Damn Day, more than once.

Parents teaching their kids to shoot up, whatever, to either have company or SHUT them up.

Lice, bedbugs, poor hygiene, terrible parenting practices, beatings, burnings, scars.

Children so miserable they are harming themselves or trying to commit suicide.

That is what I think of when I think about "risks to teens."

VAPING is just not really high on my list of priorities.

Anna

 

[zoiDman]

What are flow restrictors?

Ya know those Plastic Inserts that go in a Plastic Bottle so when you squeeze the bottle the Liquid comes out in Drops? That's a Flow Restrictor.

What makes it Relevant to this thread is awhile back, the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) decided that e-Liquids that contained Nicotine had to conform to some Consumer Poisoning act. And they were the One's who were supposed to Enforce it.

So they sent a Bunch of letters to e-Liquid OEM's saying that their Packaging had to conform to the Bla Bla Bla standard for some ml's per squeeze of the Bla Bla Bla Poisoning act else they would have to Pull their Products.

One Major OEM (who I won't mention) got with their FDA Compliance Lawyers and sent the CPSC a Nice Letter saying that they Didn't Recognize the CPSC's authority to Regulate packaging of a Tobacco Product. And as per the Post August 8th 2016 Deeming requirements, they were Unable to Change ANY Aspects of either the Product or the Product Packaging.

Couple that with fact the CPSC had Not issued ANY Guidance as to Exactly How the Bla Bla Bla standard was to be Measured. Or for that matter, any Statutorily Published information as to Exactly how the Bla Bla Bla standard was to be applied.

In lay terms, they Told the CPSC to Go Pound Sand.

Needless to say this Kick-Off a Furry of Demands, Threats and a good ole fashion Turf War between the CPSC and the FDA/CTP.

With Zeller say'n that the CPSC should stick their Noses elsewhere. And the CPSC say'n that it was Conform or face the Wrath.

All the while OEM's (and their Lawyers) kinda just sat back and Laughed as the Bickering and Authoritarian threats escalated. With HHS not exactly sure of which Horse to back? Or even which one to bet on?

 

[zoiDman]

It's also why glass bottles with droppers are disappearing (probably explains all those Naked juice sales) Even though it came with a child resistant dropper top, once opened you could dump the juice right out. I think I've seen some glass bottles with some sorta silicone plug that is supposed to restrict the rate it could pour out, but it's likely cheaper and easier to go with the plastic Gorilla/unicorn style bottles with narrow tips so you can't squeeze the entire bottle out with one push or accidental drop.

Glass Bottles were kind of a Joke when it came to CRP.

Because there just Aren't too many CRP Standards that allow Glass Containers do to the Smashie-Smashie Factor.

And that's what a Lot of Children do when they Can't open a CRP Container. They Bash it with whatever is close at hand. Like your $700 cellphone. Or they Throw It Down and Pout.

Neither is a very good Scenario for glass if the Intend is to keep Children from getting to whatever is Inside the Container.

 

[Rossum]

Glass Bottles were kind of a Joke when it came to CRP.

Because there just Aren't too many CRP Standards that allow Glass Containers do to the Smashie-Smashie Factor.

And that's what a Lot of Children do when they Can't open a CRP Container. They Bash it with whatever is close at hand. Like your $700 cellphone. Or they Throw It Down and Pout.

Neither is a very good Scenario for glass if the Intend is to keep Children from getting to whatever is Inside the Container.

A 30 ml glass Boston Round is actually pretty dang difficult to break. I'm sure I could do it with a hammer on a hard surface, but I'm not at all confident my cell phone would accomplish much.

 

[zoiDman]

A 30 ml glass Boston Round is actually pretty dang difficult to break. I'm sure I could do it with a hammer on a hard surface, but I'm not at all confident my cell phone would accomplish much.

Never Underestimate the Power of Smashie-Smashie. And Bottles come in Larger Sizes that 30ml.

BTW - Would you rather have Little Johnny using your Cellphone to Bash a Glass or a Plastic Bottle?

BTW2 - CRP really Isn't about keeping Kids from Poisoning themselves. Sure... if it Helps, that's Cool. CRP is really about Limiting Litigation Liability.

That's why OEM's work Hard behind the Scenes to Push CRP. They Won't come out and do CRP on their Own. Because No One likes CRP. And they Don't want to be the Ones who use it if their Competitors don't. But if Everyone has to, then Ca Sera Sera.

 

[Rossum]

Because No One likes CRP

True, dat. I certainly don't. I have five bottles of e-liquid on my desk. All glass. All with old-school (non-CRP) dropper tops.

 

[stols001]

Yeah, they'd be hard to break. I suppose if I flung one against my designated "anger wall" but why would I do that? You can get cheap plates at goodwill for like 5 cents.

Full disclosure have not needed anger wall in many years. It sure was useful when I needed it though.

Anna

 

[Iron Molly]

Yeah, they'd be hard to break. I suppose if I flung one against my designated "anger wall" but why would I do that? You can get cheap plates at goodwill for like 5 cents.

Full disclosure have not needed anger wall in many years. It sure was useful when I needed it though.

Anna

There is something to be said for breaking something when you're really angry. Punching pillows just doesn't work as well. I have been known to take a sledge hammer to the annoying rocks sticking up out of the lawn. I get to hit something, and make the lawn easier to mow at the same time!

 

[stols001]

I really loved it, LOL. The husband was dismayed at first. (He was raised where he was taught breaking things was a sin. He finally got on board.

When we left, he collected the cool ones and made this awesome dada garden and like, I guess he was also taught making things is what you are supposed to do.

I'm not complaining though, really. I break, he makes.

LOL at the first house in Baltimore there was this gigantic dead tree stump. Every time I got mad, I would go at that sucker with a sledgehammer. We all ended up doing it, even the kid. But like, it really HELD up. None of us made much of a dent. We called it "the angry tree."

The husband was willing to use it because he knew he would have to cut it down at some point. But yes, very therapeutic. LOL

Anna

 

[CMD-Ky]

Reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies, "Shane", if you are old enough or a western movie fan, you will remember.

There is something to be said for breaking something when you're really angry. Punching pillows just doesn't work as well. I have been known to take a sledge hammer to the annoying rocks sticking up out of the lawn. I get to hit something, and make the lawn easier to mow at the same time!

I really loved it, LOL. The husband was dismayed at first. (He was raised where he was taught breaking things was a sin. He finally got on board.

When we left, he collected the cool ones and made this awesome dada garden and like, I guess he was also taught making things is what you are supposed to do.

I'm not complaining though, really. I break, he makes.

LOL at the first house in Baltimore there was this gigantic dead tree stump. Every time I got mad, I would go at that sucker with a sledgehammer. We all ended up doing it, even the kid. But like, it really HELD up. None of us made much of a dent. We called it "the angry tree."

The husband was willing to use it because he knew he would have to cut it down at some point. But yes, very therapeutic. LOL

Anna

 

[Iron Molly]

Reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite movies, "Shane", if you are old enough or a western movie fan, you will remember.

I'm old enough, and I've seen the movie, but I'm also old enough to have CRS!

 

[CMD-Ky]

I'm old enough, and I've seen the movie, but I'm also old enough to have CRS!

CRS? I am not very proficient with initials.

 

[AttyPops]

Can't Remember Sh-poop.

Usually used by us getting-older farts.
Also known as Senior Moments, other other cute phrases.