Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
I'm trying this argument on for size, to see if it floats. Does it feel true?
To have effect on any public perception, truth or otherwise, requires ink by the barrel and association with power. The trade for such effect is money.
The NRA was masterful in the distant past at organizing and steering a message and directing donor money to the right places.
vaping will need a powerful organization supported by membership funds and donations to then take on the task of laying with thieves and reframing the message.
Short of that, we are consigned to hobby and diminishing choice. That may be fine. We make our own flavors, in the past have made our own mods and could likely get by with those solutions. 3d printing, kits and flying under the radar.
So war chest to an "NVA", or underground hobbyists.
To have effect on any public perception, truth or otherwise, requires ink by the barrel and association with power. The trade for such effect is money.
The NRA was masterful in the distant past at organizing and steering a message and directing donor money to the right places.
vaping will need a powerful organization supported by membership funds and donations to then take on the task of laying with thieves and reframing the message.
Short of that, we are consigned to hobby and diminishing choice. That may be fine. We make our own flavors, in the past have made our own mods and could likely get by with those solutions. 3d printing, kits and flying under the radar.
So war chest to an "NVA", or underground hobbyists.
There's a reason the NRA had such leverage - numbers of people represented.
"About 40% of Americans say they or someone in their household owns a gun, and 22% of individuals (about 72 million people) report owning a gun, according to surveys from Pew and Harvard and Northeastern. "
Not all gun owners are members of the NRA (@5.5 million), but there are other competing organizations. Don't know the number of vapers in the US, but the number who know of ANY vaping org (like CASSA) is rather low.
NVA not the best tag here - North Vietnamese Army :- )
Oh dear, yes, NVA not so much. VAPORG?
Really making the name is 80% of the fun. Tshirts the other 15%. Leaving 5% for booze gatherings and vapestivals.
Really making the name is 80% of the fun. Tshirts the other 15%. Leaving 5% for booze gatherings and vapestivals.
Last edited:
Still looking forward to that million man vape-a-thon on the FDA's front lawn.
Rebuild the vape!
Good luck all.
Rebuild the vape!
Good luck all.
Exactly true. We're doomed. A democracy and voting, depend partly on a free press. But, a press needs to be free of government imposed censorship, and also free of self-imposed censorship and self-chosen unfettered bias.
What we see insofar as press coverage of vaping is no different than...
Media is a profit making business not a public service. What gets shown is driven by what consumers want. As far as mainstream news goes there are plenty of people who think even Fox and MSNBC are too tame so they go to even more politically one sided outlets, and take their ad dollars with them. It's not like there's a shortage of media for any imaginable perspective. Should we be passing laws enforcing a truth-only media? Whose version of truth? That really would be government censorship.
I sometimes wonder what my opinion on vaping would be if I had never smoked or vaped. Maybe I would have seen through the smokescreen of lies financed by business interests, but there are so many issues fighting for our attention that I'm doubtful.
If media gives consumers what they want then why are they overwhelmingly one sided when the country is not? There is no proportion whatsoever.
In a truly free and competitive market of ideas, yes. In a command marketplace, it's what the rule makers say the market wants, i.e. ideas vs. ideology.
Good luck all.
Because They are the ones who were 'programmed' one-sided, from pre-school to bachelor degree and beyond, and never questioned it. Others asked questions - applied reason or common sense. There's more to it, acquiring power, etc., but that's the basics.
A fixed framework of thought is what we got from FDA…irrespective of facts, research, comparative results, popular experience or especially preference.
Not the help I need. Thank you.
Good luck.
Not the help I need. Thank you.
Good luck.
If I give you a billion dollars plus to enlighten the public about vaping could you do it ? Could you undue the super rich media magnate who has in fact spent over a billion dollars supporting anti-tobacco and over a hundred and fifty million dollars trying to destroy the vaping industry - This is a fact!!!
First he was a Republican, than an independent, and finally he became a Democrat and actually tried to buy the Presidency - And how many dollars he has spent on Democratic candidates is unknown - I attribute all actions by government that are anti-vaping to him even thought there are others with their own prejudices,
I call them the tobacco nazis.
What if we had the money to fight back ???
Could we still fight back and win ???
People view nicotine as an addiction. Our previous method of feeding that addiction (cigarettes) and the known consequences of smoking is what hurts vaping. Regardless of politics, they don't need/want to understand. Tell people you vape and you'll probably hear, "yeah but you're still doing nicotine" in response. As a minority in the population we should not be surprised by what's happening. It really doesn't matter to people who don't use nicotine.
When big cities all had 5 or more daily newspapers + more weeklies, smaller locales has 2 or 3 and even rural areas had multiple dailies or weeklies, while the airwaves were filled with numerous, independent, local radio and (later) TV stations, there was a breadth of opinion and fierce competition that required reliable reporting. As well, the reporters & editors were generally churched.
Now, 6 corporations own most of the media consumed by most people and nearly all the major papers & the radio stations are owned by national chains. Few in media give a whit about ethics & morality.
The internet has changed things, of course. Still, 90+% of Americans get the majority of their news from 'legacy media' while, more & more, the internet is dominated by a small handful of major players, none of whom are notable for their traditional ethics.
Big money has decided to end vaping. It buys the media and the politicians, neither of which have qualms about doing the whatever the money wants. The problem is old and deep. No amount of reason, sense, or moral indignation from us will solve it.
Which is why we prols are acting like survivalists, filling our shelters with supplies in hopes of making it through the apocalyptic storm.
Disagree. As someone who worked in the corporate world for many years, I assure you I understand the profit making side of things.
But, my point is simple. They are not censoring/barring people because of profit. They have chosen to bar certain people or things because of who they are or what those people believe. They are picking and choosing as they see fit. And, their criteria are not public. It's arbitrary and totally up to what side of the bed they wake up on. That's wrong.
The "press" has always been independent of the government in our country, that is they're private profit making businesses. A free press is essential to a functioning democracy. But, they have a responsibility to be fair and impartial and truth seeking and unbiased in their presentation. And, given the world now, social media is part of the "press" IMHO.
Just as the media biased anti-vaping slant was predominant until they got on the coronavirus wagon, the anti-vaping slant will soon re-emerge when Biden proclaims corona is dead, in about 3 months is my guess. Just trying to keep it relevant to the thread.
Let me tell you, in my opinion, exactly how we've come to where we are.
Many years ago someone invented a vaping device which proved to be safer than smoking - and slowly over some years the people producing these devices started to gain more and more people - Slowly at first as the earlier devices did not produce a flavor that most smokers liked
and tended to be rough on the throat, rougher than lit tobacco - But over years the vape devices improved and so did the flavors - And scientific tests showed these devices were far less toxic than lit tobacco. At around this time the 'tobacco nazis' {people who hate anything related to tabacco} started to notice they had a problem. They could not sleep well and probably started developing legal and illegal drug habits, as well as immense emotional distress - You see all ther work in demonizing tobacco was going down the drain
- Their only hope was find trivial amounts of toxic substances in vape and to claim vapes are more addictive than other forms of tobacco {there is still no proof of this}
Around this time big tobacco, always looking to make money saw the golden calf - a tobacco product that people liked and could be proven less harmful than lit tobacco and especially less dangerous than cigarettes - So they began promoting vaping big time and sure enough vaping went big time with corresponding big profits.
The 'tobacco nazis' were going mad, got themselves a billionaire media magnate 'control freak' to be their leader, and the war was on.
Make no mistake about it these tobacco nazis and their fuhrer billionaire would sooner see millions of people die from cigarettes rather than let you enjoy a safer tobacco product like vaping.
So a few years ago everyday on the mainstream news you would hear about the 'teen vaping epidemic'
and how millions and millions of teenagers were becoming overnight addicts - They would even get teenagers to swear they became instant addicts.
BUT IT WASN'T WORKING - THEY NEEDED SOMETHNG ELSE.
And when you have a billionaire who wants to take your vapes away anything is possible. And suddenly people are getting sick and dying, supposedly from vaping - Did someone with all the money in the world pay some group to poison a bunch of vapes ???
You don't really believe it was coincidence that while they were screaming about the horrors of the vaping
addiction among teenagers a deadly disease caused by contaminated, and apparently illegal vape products would suddenly appear ????
They say "The truth will make you free" - So as we just defeated a wanna be tyrant who tried to nullify the American Presidential election with fraudulent lies about fraud - Let us defeat that other little tyrant who also tried to buy the American Presidency and lost because even the control freak liberals couldn't stand him .
We are Americans first {of course I include our foreign friends} and as one billionaire tyrant could not overturn an election, let us not let another media tyrant {Michael B. made his money in the media business} distort the truth and take our vapes away !!!
- Vapeon4Life
Many years ago someone invented a vaping device which proved to be safer than smoking - and slowly over some years the people producing these devices started to gain more and more people - Slowly at first as the earlier devices did not produce a flavor that most smokers liked
and tended to be rough on the throat, rougher than lit tobacco - But over years the vape devices improved and so did the flavors - And scientific tests showed these devices were far less toxic than lit tobacco. At around this time the 'tobacco nazis' {people who hate anything related to tabacco} started to notice they had a problem. They could not sleep well and probably started developing legal and illegal drug habits, as well as immense emotional distress - You see all ther work in demonizing tobacco was going down the drain
- Their only hope was find trivial amounts of toxic substances in vape and to claim vapes are more addictive than other forms of tobacco {there is still no proof of this}
Around this time big tobacco, always looking to make money saw the golden calf - a tobacco product that people liked and could be proven less harmful than lit tobacco and especially less dangerous than cigarettes - So they began promoting vaping big time and sure enough vaping went big time with corresponding big profits.
The 'tobacco nazis' were going mad, got themselves a billionaire media magnate 'control freak' to be their leader, and the war was on.
Make no mistake about it these tobacco nazis and their fuhrer billionaire would sooner see millions of people die from cigarettes rather than let you enjoy a safer tobacco product like vaping.
So a few years ago everyday on the mainstream news you would hear about the 'teen vaping epidemic'
and how millions and millions of teenagers were becoming overnight addicts - They would even get teenagers to swear they became instant addicts.
BUT IT WASN'T WORKING - THEY NEEDED SOMETHNG ELSE.
And when you have a billionaire who wants to take your vapes away anything is possible. And suddenly people are getting sick and dying, supposedly from vaping - Did someone with all the money in the world pay some group to poison a bunch of vapes ???
You don't really believe it was coincidence that while they were screaming about the horrors of the vaping
addiction among teenagers a deadly disease caused by contaminated, and apparently illegal vape products would suddenly appear ????
They say "The truth will make you free" - So as we just defeated a wanna be tyrant who tried to nullify the American Presidential election with fraudulent lies about fraud - Let us defeat that other little tyrant who also tried to buy the American Presidency and lost because even the control freak liberals couldn't stand him .
We are Americans first {of course I include our foreign friends} and as one billionaire tyrant could not overturn an election, let us not let another media tyrant {Michael B. made his money in the media business} distort the truth and take our vapes away !!!
- Vapeon4Life
Last edited:
Yes, sometimes I wonder if education should be renamed indoctrination. I find many people without a prestigious college degree to be more capable of well reasoned critical thinking than most with one. Sad but true.
Worse, there's a certain stigma to NOT having one. As if you can't learn as much and more on your own than at a university.
When I said "There's more to it... but that's the basics.", you're getting into the 'more to it' stuff
As an adult, authorities can suppress what you say or write (your freedom of speech and press) but they can't stop what you think (your freedom of conscience). As a pre-school child (and beyond), what you think, can be controlled by the language - the words and the concepts they represent - you are taught. See "newspeak" 1984, via the curricula of mainly public schools and of 'higher' education, (advanced indoctrination - which is, imo, why it is pushed and why, as you say, they attach a stigma to not having it).
This is where the 'science' of smoking and vaping is made to look "equivalent", (see UCSF and elsewhere) when the true science of tar and nicotine is quite different. And where they push a 'stigma' of a different type. Applies to other areas, of course - again, the 'more to it' stuff, where this isn't the place to discuss.
Similar threads
- Locked
