Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Kent C]

Fear Profiteers - Competitive Enterprise Institute

Thanks for posting. Lots of good stuff a lot of us know to well. New vapers - take a look. Esp. liked this, because it can point to certain NGOs that have intentions other than what they promote - health and kids' health - not always the case:

HOW NONPROFITS PROFIT

It might seem counterintuitive that anti-smoking advocates would spearhead a campaign to scare people away from products that reduce tobacco-related harm—a central part of their mission. But as admirable as that mission is, improving public health is not their sole objective.

All charitable and nonprofit organizations must pursue funding to support and sustain their efforts. They need income in order to pay salaries and rent and invest in the projects that advance their cause.

Like for-profit businesses that compete for customers, nonprofits must also compete with one another for limited sources of financial support, such as private donations from individuals, corporations, or foundations. Some also compete for grant money awarded by universities, governments, and other institutions.

 

[CMD-Ky]

The most lucrative source of grant funding to not-for-profit advocacy groups: good ole Uncle Sugar, the American tax payer.

Thanks for posting. Lots of good stuff a lot of us know to well. New vapers - take a look. Esp. liked this, because it can point to certain NGOs that have intentions other than what they promote - health and kids' health - not always the case:

HOW NONPROFITS PROFIT

It might seem counterintuitive that anti-smoking advocates would spearhead a campaign to scare people away from products that reduce tobacco-related harm—a central part of their mission. But as admirable as that mission is, improving public health is not their sole objective.

All charitable and nonprofit organizations must pursue funding to support and sustain their efforts. They need income in order to pay salaries and rent and invest in the projects that advance their cause.

Like for-profit businesses that compete for customers, nonprofits must also compete with one another for limited sources of financial support, such as private donations from individuals, corporations, or foundations. Some also compete for grant money awarded by universities, governments, and other institutions.

 

[CMD-Ky]

The most lucrative source of grant funding to not-for-profit advocacy groups: good ole Uncle Sugar, the American tax payer.

Or, I should add, the government printing press, gleefully printing money that we do not have; creating the cruelest tax of all - inflation.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Or, I should add, the government printing press, gleefully printing money that we do not have; creating the cruelest tax of all - inflation.

No problem - With smoking tobacco reaching sky high taxes, its now time for them to raise vape taxes even more - After all they're doing it for your own good so you will stop vaping and smoking while they get rich off of controlling you !!!
Again like I've said before, they may be evil but they're not stupid !!!

 

[BillW50]

Are all American vapers ready for September 9th? The day all vaping products not approved become illegal to market. And to date, no vape product has ever been approved by the FDA. So unless a miracle occurs and they actually approve something in the next month, all vaping products become illegal.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Are all American vapers ready for September 9th? The day all vaping products not approved become illegal to market. And to date, no vape product has ever been approved by the FDA. So unless a miracle occurs and they actually approve something in the next month, all vaping products become illegal.

Actually, as someone said, that is already the case - Technically no vaping products are 'legal' even now.

Many millions of dollars in taxes are at stake - Like the post office and the mail ban, you might expect delays in regulations and enforcement of those regulations.

No way of knowing what they will try to enforce - There were supposedly many thousands of applications.

So short of them outlawing vaping entirely, I would expect some general guidelines on what type of device and regulations as to safety of the device itself and maybe even quality of coils {there is some evidence that certain coils can give off trace metallic particles that may be harmful}. - Just guessing though.

 

[BillW50]

Actually, as someone said, that is already the case - Technically no vaping products are 'legal' even now.

Actually the things that are still legal are things that the PMTA was submitted for on or before August 8, 2016. Anything after can't be sold until approved legally. But next month everything becomes illegal regardless, unless it becomes approved.

Last year on September 9, 2020 was the last day to submit a PMTA for anything newer. It was illegal to sell it before approval of course, but they didn't enforce it. But everything becomes illegal to market after this September 9th. So it will be easy for the FDA to close everything down. As it won't matter if you submitted a PMTA or not, its still illegal without approval (which has never happened yet).

 

[hittman]

Actually the things that are still legal are things that the PMTA was submitted for on or before August 8, 2016. Anything after can't be sold until approved legally. But next month everything becomes illegal regardless, unless it becomes approved.

Last year on September 9, 2020 was the last day to submit a PMTA for anything newer. It was illegal to sell it before approval of course, but they didn't enforce it. But everything becomes illegal to market after this September 9th. So it will be easy for the FDA to close everything down. As it won't matter if you submitted a PMTA or not, its still illegal without approval (which has never happened yet).

You've suddenly got me running my inventory through my head. Do I have enough of this or that? I know I'm set on nic in the freezer and have enough hardware for a few lifetimes but it still has me questioning myself.

 

[FranC]

You've suddenly got me running my inventory through my head. Do I have enough of this or that? I know I'm set on nic in the freezer and have enough hardware for a few lifetimes but it still has me questioning myself.

You only have enough to open a vape shop.

 

[hittman]

You only have enough to open a vape shop.

I know. Should I have enough to open a second shop?

 

[FranC]

I know. Should I have enough to open a second shop?

Probably not necessary.

 

[thanswr1]

Actually the things that are still legal are things that the PMTA was submitted for on or before August 8, 2016. Anything after can't be sold until approved legally. But next month everything becomes illegal regardless, unless it becomes approved.

Last year on September 9, 2020 was the last day to submit a PMTA for anything newer. It was illegal to sell it before approval of course, but they didn't enforce it. But everything becomes illegal to market after this September 9th. So it will be easy for the FDA to close everything down. As it won't matter if you submitted a PMTA or not, its still illegal without approval (which has never happened yet).

My best guess tells me, if the FDA cancels all PMTA's that were submitted AND bans vape products except for a few, the real fight is on.

The FDA will have then stepped on the toes of some heavy hitters like BEARD, Aspire, Triton, etc.

Bring on the court cases with firms that have deep pockets.

I'm almost salivating over the prospect.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

My best guess tells me, if the FDA cancels all PMTA's that were submitted

And issue full refunds, as well reimburse everyone for wasted time preparing and submitting PMTAs...right?

 

[thanswr1]

And issue full refunds, as well reimburse everyone for wasted time preparing and submitting PMTAs...right?

How about a class action suit for all the "Mom & Pop's" put out of business because they couldn't afford the price of a PMTA? And then to have the FDA cancel PMTA's because of their incompetence, lack of planning and general stupidity.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

How about a class action suit for all the "Mom & Pop's" put out of business because they couldn't afford the price of a PMTA? And then to have the FDA cancel PMTA's because of their incompetence, lack of planning and general stupidity.

Or, how about trying it this way:

Spain: Vape Industry Sues Government Over Anti-Vaping Campaign

Last November, Spain’s Health Ministry launched an anti-vaping campaign which ignores all the scientific evidence in favour of vaping for smoking cessation and/or tobacco harm reduction. Moreover, the campaign makes a number of false claims such as blaming vaping for the EVALI outbreak and saying that vapour is carcinogenic.

“On November 18, the Spanish Ministry of Health launched a campaign to discredit the vapor sector, on the basis of widely scientifically denied reports (it blames EVALI among other things for the responsibility of electronic cigarettes, the fact that the vapor emitted is carcinogenic and that electronic smoking is not helpful in quitting smoking, and even claims that it is just as harmful as cigarettes),” said president of the Spanish Association of Vape Professionals, Massimiliano Belli, in an email to Vaping Post........"

Spain: Vape Industry Sues Government Over Anti-Vaping Campaign - Vaping Post

 

[Vapeon4Life]

Or, how about trying it this way:

Spain: Vape Industry Sues Government Over Anti-Vaping Campaign

Last November, Spain’s Health Ministry launched an anti-vaping campaign which ignores all the scientific evidence in favour of vaping for smoking cessation and/or tobacco harm reduction. Moreover, the campaign makes a number of false claims such as blaming vaping for the EVALI outbreak and saying that vapour is carcinogenic.

“On November 18, the Spanish Ministry of Health launched a campaign to discredit the vapor sector, on the basis of widely scientifically denied reports (it blames EVALI among other things for the responsibility of electronic cigarettes, the fact that the vapor emitted is carcinogenic and that electronic smoking is not helpful in quitting smoking, and even claims that it is just as harmful as cigarettes),” said president of the Spanish Association of Vape Professionals, Massimiliano Belli, in an email to Vaping Post........"

Spain: Vape Industry Sues Government Over Anti-Vaping Campaign - Vaping Post

As the PMTA deadline again approaches and the FDA has already begun some enforcement actions {"Today, FDA issued a Refuse to File (RTF) letter to JD Nova Group LLC notifying the company that their PMTAs for approximately 4.5 million of their products do not meet the filing requirements..."} - It becomes obvious that it is not control but rather 'Prohibition' that seems to be the agenda because impossible to adhere to regulations are tantamount to 'Prohibition' - Making vaping illegal by regulating it out of existence is not legal
- Vaping has not been declared illegal and now is the time for the vape industry to act, form a coalition, pool their resources, higher and assemble the best legal team possible and sue those elements and government agencies that are manipulating the law to outlaw the legal vaping industry.

 

[Territoo]

FDA Rejects 4.5 Million PMTA Applications From a Single Vape Company

 

[440BB]

I find it very strange that an El Paso chain of four vape shops would file 4.5 million applications. That's approximately 2/3 of all applications filed with the FDA.

I hope it didn't motivate the FDA to find weakness in the environmental impact portion of the applications as a means to reject many more en masse. People find shortcuts to get things done when overwhelmed.

Four shops, 4.5 million applications. Ridiculous and potentially harmful to our interests.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I find it very strange that an El Paso chain of four vape shops would file 4.5 million applications. That's approximately 2/3 of all applications filed with the FDA.

I hope it didn't motivate the FDA to find weakness in the environmental impact portion of the applications as a means to reject many more en masse. People find shortcuts to get things done when overwhelmed.

Four shops, 4.5 million applications. Ridiculous and potentially harmful to our interests.

That's exactly what I was thinking. 4.5 million applications, from what I understand, would cost literally trillions of dollars. IIRC, folks were saying 1 PMTA costs almost 1 million dollars. But assuming that was all BS and that one PMTA only costs $250K (only lol), 4.5 million PMTAs would cost $1.13 TRILLION. How does a local vape shop have that kind of liquid capital? No bank is going to give you a loan on such a gamble as a PMTA and good luck finding that many private investors. You'd have better odds at a positive ROI at the race track or a casino.

Not to mention, there is no possible way one company could have 4.5 million different SKUs. Even if they had 500 different house brand Eliquid flavors in 10 different strengths, that's only 5,000 SKUs.

 

[Bronze]

You'd have better odds at a positive ROI at the race track or a casino.

Even if you bet on the three-legged horse.