FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies

[kingcobra]

where would they get e-juice with nicotine from? they might ban all imports of nicotine. they are already starting to do that in places. trying to get things through customs in some places it getting harder to do.

It's banned for import here in Canada but people import it all the time and shipments rarely get seized, and when they do, it's just part of the price of doing business. So I wouldn't worry too much about that. Still though, we'd have to order from China, which is much more of a pain in addition to the lesser quality of the juice over there, so here's hoping that it doesn't get banned down there

 

[CES]

Ok, so just a little down to the wire, but.....

Comment Tracking Number: 8103054c

 

[sanjosse]

I hope I got in under the wire!

Thank you for submitting a comment on the following Notice:

Draft Guidance for Industry; Availability: Modified Risk Tobacco Product Applications

Agency: FDA
Document ID: FDA-2012-D-0071-0001
Your Comment Tracking Number: 810317db

 

[sandybeach]

Just a thought.....

If the FDA blocks nicotine sales, all we have to do is grow the flower, Nicotiana National Garden Bureau :: Year Of.... I've grown it for years -- it reseeds itself every year so you don't even have to replant it.
Guess what the leaves are?????!!!!! Nicotine!

Some facts from a wikipedia article on Nicotine:

"History and name: Nicotine is named after the tobacco plant Nicotiana tabacum, which in turn is named after Jean Nicot de Villemain, French ambassador in Portugal, who sent tobacco and seeds brought from Brazil by the Portuguese colonist in São Paulo, Luís de Góis (also a future jesuit in India), to Paris in 1560, and promoted their medicinal use. Nicotine was first isolated from the tobacco plant in 1828 by physician Wilhelm Heinrich Posselt and chemist Karl Ludwig Reimann of Germany, who considered it a poison.[10][11] Its chemical empirical formula was described by Melsens in 1843,[12] its structure was discovered by Adolf Pinner and Richard Wolffenstein in 1893, and it was first synthesized by A. Pictet and Crepieux in 1904.[13]

Historical use of nicotine as an insecticide: Tobacco was introduced to Europe in 1559, and by the late 17th century, it was used not only for smoking but also as an insecticide. After World War II, over 2,500 tons of nicotine insecticide (waste from the tobacco industry) were used worldwide, but by the 1980s the use of nicotine insecticide had declined below 200 tons. This was due to the availability of other insecticides that are cheaper and less harmful to mammals.[4]

Currently, nicotine is a permitted pesticide for organic farming because it is derived from a botanical source. Nicotine sulfate sold for use as a pesticide is labeled "DANGER," indicating that it is highly toxic.[5] However, in 2008, the EPA received a request to cancel the registration of the last nicotine pesticide registered in the United States.[14] This request was granted, and after 1 January 2014, this pesticide will not be available for sale.[15]"
--Sandybeach's notes: WTF?

How to extract Nicotiana for use as a pesticide, 1924 article:http://www.sciencemag.org/content/60/1555/365.extract]NICOTIANA RUSTICA AS A SOURCE OF NICOTINE FOR INSECT CONTRO[/COLOR]L

From a wikipedia article on Nicotiana:
"Nicotiana is used in genetics, callus research, and plant cytology and kinetin research in biotechnology:"
"Many species of Nicotiana are also grown as ornamental plants. They are popular vespertines, their sweet-smelling flowers opening in the evening to be visited by hawkmoths and other pollinators.
--Sandybeach's notes -- This is probably why they are reseed so easily each year.

From an e-how article - What is Nicotiana:
"...Nicotiana is good for pollenators, it is poisonous to almost everyone else, since most parts of the plant contain nicotine; chew-prone pets and curious children (and adults) should be closely supervised when in the area."

Nope, the FDA ain't gonna get us. Not when the vaping community has people that have access to soil and water.

 

[purelyscientific]

There are e juices with no nicotine. They can't ban them because theyre not a tobacco product. That means they can't ban the e-cigs hardware. Just like how during prohibition they didn't ban bottle openers because they were used for other beverages. Haha Do us all a favor and do some scientific studies to prove what we already know(e-cigs are safer and the best smoking cessation device on the market) What the real issue here is that the e-cigs will take a ton of revenue away from the other cessation devices(patches, gum) They don't want to let us have our cake and eat it too.

 

[Lisa Belle]

A call to action as posted on CASAA

New York State Call to Action

Here's my letter I wrote last night. I can't afford to send it by snail mail. Hope I can email it to the Senate Committee members.

I have been called upon as a voting American citizen to my duty to decent and I strongly oppose BILL# S07635 of The State of New York, that would ban all sales of E-cigarettes to consumers in the Great State of New York. I have first hand knowledge, that smoking harmed my health. Since 2009 I have been using an e-cigarette. For two and a half years I am breathing better and I am active again without the symptoms of breathlessness, wheezing and coughing that I had suffered for nearly forty years thanks to smoking cigarettes. I am in favor of a ban against the sale of e-cigarettes and other smokeless tobacco products to minors. The new New York State Assembly Bill #S07635 bill is very similar to Linda Rosenthal’s Bill #9044-B both of these bills I am opposed to. I do however appreciate Senator Johnson’s bill #S02926B that would ban the sales to minors, but allow adults to purchase and use the e-cigarettes and other smokefree tobacco products. Published surveys taken by people that use e-cigarettes, shows that most users have entirely replaced their smoking habits with the use e-cigarettes. The bill proposed here would remove the availability of this affordable and healthier alternative to smoking. If this bill passes, many e-cigarette users agree they will return to lethal yet ironically legal smoking. Most e-cigarette users prior to vaping, had numerous attempts at quitting smoking, unsuccessfully, it is shown by statistics, how few people who have quit smoking, stay quit! Smoking is deadly and carcinogenic, it is scientifically proven to be linked to cancer and all the smoking related diseases that inevitably lead to morbidity. Home fires are not caused by electronic cigarettes, they are caused from lighters and burning cigarettes. At least 250,000 voting New York citizens use these electronic cigarettes, if this bill passes it will force them back to legal and lethal smoking.
Smokers as a group are more ostracized than any other addicted group. We have been overtaxed, blamed, shamed, and as a group we have suffered employment discrimination. My e-cigarette has set me free from all of that. I am free of the filthy, smelly, expensive, unhealthy and dangerous practice of smoking. Please don’t force me back to it. I tried to quit for years, with pharmaceutical drugs, patches, gum etc.. Perhaps millions of other Americans will be able to have this safer alternative available, if Bills like S07635 do not become enacted into law. Don’t deprive millions of still smoking and choking Americans this choice. CASAA.ORG
THE CONSUMER ADVOCATES FOR SMOKE-FREE ALTERNATIVE
ASSOCIATION.
Sincerely, Lisa Bell

 

[sanjosse]

Lisa Belle,

Well said!

I sent them a similar letter, as well as one to the Miami-Dade County Board of Commissioners concerning their Ordinance No. 120901. If we don't voice ourselves they'll just continue to ignore us.

 

[Lisa Belle]

Thank you San Josse!!! We gotta is right!

 

[Vocalek]

Here is my analysis of the problem with the FDA applying the "Substantial Equivalence" provision to e-cigarettes

FDA Regulation Could Make E-Cigarettes Less Effective

 

[TennDave]

Nicely written, Elaine!!
Hopefully there will be many positive comments!

 

[Lisa Belle]

I agree Elaine.

 

[Lisa Belle]

You know what. If they pass this ordinance in Florida, I am never going there! Also, I'll boycot any products I buy unless it's e-cigs lolol. We have got to become militant and there's no other way if we don't!!! The we are so nice vapers is not going to convince the antz and the organizations, that want to profit from taking control away from us! I don't believe they will give it back to us in anyway, that resembles what we have now. Just dumping, but I am at my wits end about the lifetime of criticism, I've personally and others I am sure too, have withstood, for simply being addicted to nicotine. When it was smoking, I was feeling ashamed and scorned, now it's vaping and they want to do the same ....! I'll be alright, I'll just dig a trench in a mountain hillside with a double barrel shotgun, loaded and ready to defend my vaping! Our vaping. Help I'm my perspective pershaps, but this could be the worst thing I can imagine since the prohibition era.

 

[Kemosabe]

please forgive me if this has already been answered, but does anyone know when exactly this ban may or may not take place? i keep hearing "this summer" but i have yet to hear a date.

thanks,
Kemo

 

[Kemosabe]

thanks for the like. i assume you do not know the answer. do you think *anyone* knows or is everyone pretty much held in limbo at this point?

the only info i could find online was the info that the CASAA needed 10,000 signatures by September 1st. it makes no mention of the year. could be a sept 1 of the past for all i know.

 

[Lisa Belle]

Hi Kemo:
There is much to be learned continuously here on that issue. Also, you can find out more by reading what CASAA.ORG is urging us to do so that we will be able to keep enjoying this alternative to smoking. They have oodles of info and you will always know, when how what or if about it all.

 

[Vocalek]

please forgive me if this has already been answered, but does anyone know when exactly this ban may or may not take place? i keep hearing "this summer" but i have yet to hear a date.

thanks,
Kemo

It's a two-step process. First, since the Tobacco Act did not include e-cigarettes (and several other tobacco products), the FDA would need to issue a "deeming" regulations stating that the Secretary deems e-cigarettes to be included in the products it will regulate under the Tobacco Act. There would then be a public comment period, after which the FDA would issue a final rule on which products it deems to be under its purview.

Second, the FDA could begin issuing draft regulations that affect e-cigarettes. Each proposed regulation must be posted on Regulations.gov and allow a public comment period. After that, the FDA would issue the final rule.

So what we are talking about is not a "ban" per se. However, the FDA could issue regulations that result in a de facto ban. For example, if they go forward with applying section 905(j) and announce that all e-cigarettes that were not on the market in February 2007 must be taken off the market, that would eliminate 510s, KR808s, eGos and similar devices, Mods, etc. That could not happen until the FDA first issued a deeming regulation, and second issued a specific regulation affecting e-cigs.

I have heard rumors that the FDA will issue the deeming regulation next month, but it could happen next week or it could happen many months from now.

The public comment period for each proposed rule or regulation is usually 60 days. It can take several months after the comments close for a government agency to issue a final rule. So the short answer is "not immediately" and the long answer is anybody's guess.

 

[Kemosabe]

thanks so much for the info feel free to ignore that PM i sent you, Vocalek

and now im going to do this because i dont want to appear happy about a possible defacto ban.

 

[Reidus]

This is my first time in this section of the forum. I"ve been vaping since the beginning of May and this is my new addiction. I've got several thoughts of what actually might happen and what we should be doing. First, I'm not sure that the FDA has the legal authority to ban personal vaping devices (note I'm not saying "e-cigarettes". This is because the devices don't require nicotine to work. All of the other components of e-juice (PG, VG and flavorings) aren't drugs per se, and as such the FDA probably can't outlaw them. Consider the fact that we've had a war on drugs for over 30 years now, but you can still go into certain shops and buy bongs, water pipes, hookahs, etc. I'm more concerned on them locking down access to nicotine. What we need to be doing as a community is distancing outselves from the whole idea of cigarettes in general. I don't "smoke" an e-cigarette; I don't use "e-cigs" at all. I have a PVD (personal vaping device), which produces water vapor, not smoke. Comparing that to smoking is like comparing coffee to 5-hour energy drinks; they both contain caffeine, but the similarities end there. I try to make this point clear to anybody I can talk to about this; what I do has nothing to do with smoking, tobacco, or any related products. My device looks nothing like a cigarette, cigar or any other smoking product. We need to get this message out to our lawmakers and other powers that be. Every body in the medical community that I've talked to is thrilled with the idea of a viable alternative to smoking; we should attempt to get the AMA on board as well.

 

[TennDave]

Well there certainly is a lot to learn...
My recommendation is for all those who are just coming to this section of the forum to first join CASAA and make a donation- they have been fighting this fight for awhile. All of the suggestions that you have made Reidus, for instance has been undertaken for a while. Yes, we don't "smoke," and yes we use vapor devices (whatever their current trendy name is). Anyway, unfortunately, the "alphabet soup" organizations like the ALA, AHA, etc., even the AMA have deep hands into Big Pharma and are not about to budge on their position against e-cigs. Many, many attempts have been tried. Here is a position regarding e-cigs for instance by the AMA: AMA: Electronic Cigarettes Are Drug Delivery Devices and Should Be Subject to FDA Regulations So, our best bet for changing any of these organizations is from the inside out...some members have finally seen the light, but typically when they do and become vocal, they get excommunicated. That is our plight. So, social media and the public is our best hope in the fight...something that is growing with more and more disgruntled citizens who are sick and tired of being lied to and duped by large government and supposedly pro-health professional and sometimes "public" organizations.

 

[Lisa Belle]

I like your take on the terminology. How do you think we could begin to gain the support of the AMA? I also, have had positive statements from an MD. I am very leery of the money corruption that is behind the scenes, though. If an entire generation, the largest aging population ever were to take it upon themselves to cure there own smoking related health problems, by switching to personal vaporizers, the AHA, ALA would not need to exist and be supported by tax payer contributions etc., and they would not have too many future generations of aging sickly people as well. What we are doing by vaping is changing the course of financial corporate history, this is ruffling feathers and power, money and corporate investments (healthcare industry) all these. and they do lobby and the money these organizations ecru is phenomenal. It would be nice to believe that the healthcare AMA and all the related businesses especially big Pharma, would be happy to get out of the way and allow their profits to dwindle. It's a money making breaking issue and it is great when a Doctor, in the privacy of his office applauds the use of these personal devices. It's entirely another, when they vote as group, against Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, AHA, ALA it's like they would be going to war for us. I wonder if it's possible to have any idealism left in my brain to imagine that. I'd love to see some real HUMANITARIANISM existing in the Healthcare World Empire. I would be tickled pink. It would be the greatest thing that could help people using PV's to have the AMA make a bold favorable statement on the behalf of choice and health benefits.

I think I say too much. Simply this isn't about right and wrong it's only about profits. I am writing letters anyway, as CASAA.ORG asks us all to do. In my heart of hearts, I hope it might do some good.