FDA may soon propose regulation that could ban many/most e-cigarette products, eliminate many/most companies
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
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No, don't blame health care reform - this nicotine = smoking = insurance surcharge was going on before that. My company is an example. But instead of calling it a surcharge, they doubled everyone's rate, then offered a discount if you were a non-smoker.
You shouldn't ... but then again should ... blame health care reform. But first, we need to realize just why some of us have been loathe to include 21st century nicotine products in all manner of things described as tobacco products. NOT the same societal impact.
As we will all soon see, health care reform puts us further down the slippery slope of "cost to society" vs. individual responsibility. Now that EVERYONE MUST take part in the process of health insurance, anyone who increases the cost to society of these services is open to punishment in some form. Obese? Tobacco user? Use too much sugar, salt? High Cholesterol??
Yes, 8 years ago my own company insurance under Blue Cross/Blue Shield increased my co-pay and yearly minimum for out of pocket because I was a tobacco user.
The only positive this kind of thing can bring might be lawsuits requesting actual proof of harm and/or cost to society from e-cigs before increasing user's insurance expense or reduced coverage.
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I'm betting the word "noncompliant" is written on the rope we'll all hang from. It'll be interesting to see if that becomes the health care buzzword of the future.
When the Patient Is Noncompliant
They already know not to go down that road - if we start talking about "cost to society", we would realize there's a surplus of tax revenue being misdirected from smokers to "healthcare for children", etc. The bottom line is that smokers die young - they don't get to collect social security, and they don't live 30 years in a nursing home at $6,000 per month on the government dole. Dead people don't need healthcare or power chairs. The best thing for the economy/budget and society would be to increase smoking.
What does this acknowledgement lead someone to think of next? It's very nearly impossible to live completely outside of the radar. Being the sacrificial lamb and knowing it, is a hard thing to accept . I used to feel like a sucker when I smoked, go figure. Quitting smoking to vape and finding out that by quitting I am a bigger target. We are Revolutionists, whether we realize it or not. It may inspire more Truckers and Bikers to visit the capitol. This is America.
Which I believe is part of the reason why they promote ineffective cessation aids and demonize smokeless tobacco options.
(I bet there was a big 'Oh s---, what have we done!', somewhere at some point in the trend of decreasing smoking rates)
Saddest fact is that "cost to society" is a done deal. It was the basis of what they went after big tobacco for. The discovery of big tobacco's deceitful history and the possibility of hanging them with other charges is what drove them to negotiate the Master Settlement, iinm.
I became first aware of the slippery slope CTS issue in 1967-8 when NHTSA started using it to implement m/c helmet laws as a precursor to implementation of mandatory seat belt laws. That was the angle they used in courts with states that resisted. Not saying either is good or bad, just that there was NO way they could have passed seat belt legislation in that era without first having a legal precedent. Who better than a relatively small group of people without wide public support.
Worked VERY well in most cases. Highway money blackmail worked with the few that resisted.to the end.
I became first aware of the slippery slope CTS issue in 1967-8 when NHTSA started using it to implement m/c helmet laws as a precursor to implementation of mandatory seat belt laws. That was the angle they used in courts with states that resisted. Not saying either is good or bad, just that there was NO way they could have passed seat belt legislation in that era without first having a legal precedent. Who better than a relatively small group of people without wide public support.
Worked VERY well in most cases. Highway money blackmail worked with the few that resisted.to the end.
I suppose the only good thing about these potential new regs is that the FDA is woefully ineffective at keeping drugs/ devices out of the country when those things are mail-ordered.
tens units are prescription-required devices, but you can order as many as you want on the web & have them shipped in without a hitch. the little blue pill & cipro require a prescription, but there are a hundred foreign websites that will send them to you..
the only disadvantage is that in the name of "safety", we will end up with a well-documented *unsafe* product being legal, and a safer alternative being banned, and - instead of being able to order nic-juice from a supplier in the us, you'll be forced to deal with unknown & unregulated foreign suppliers & the public will be the ones who are the guinea pigs.
tens units are prescription-required devices, but you can order as many as you want on the web & have them shipped in without a hitch. the little blue pill & cipro require a prescription, but there are a hundred foreign websites that will send them to you..
the only disadvantage is that in the name of "safety", we will end up with a well-documented *unsafe* product being legal, and a safer alternative being banned, and - instead of being able to order nic-juice from a supplier in the us, you'll be forced to deal with unknown & unregulated foreign suppliers & the public will be the ones who are the guinea pigs.
The "regulate something until it's unsafe" became very noticeable in the general "War on (some) Drugs" in the last decade. As the persecution (not a miss-spelling) of people with a common urine type has ramped up; despite the growing recognition of its relative harmlessness, the chemists were hard at work creating gmo-frankenstien versions of natural substances with juuuust enough chemical difference to make them "legal". THAT is the stuff, my friends, that will make your teenager freak out and jump in front of traffic, not the good ol' mellow ILLEGAL kind. Of course, then they rewrite the law to include the latest "chemical o'the week" just in time for the chemicals to change juuuust slightly again--getting even more potent and un-predictable.
Unintended consequence (Karma?) is ALWAYS to be expected when you deal with "problems" through force. We put more people in jail in 'MeriKa because we don't think that they are "living right" than Stalin put in the gulags.
We should just put down the guns and deal with the fact that some folks are going to do things that we find objectionable.
Okay we put down the guns. We have no argument left. They win, even if we find it objectionable. We will slump back off into the reject society they punitively say we belong to, since we know we can't escape from their power.. We will just submissively board the trains leaving for prison camps. Or we will fight against horrible odds, that will certainly be the slaughter of most of everything that makes life a beautiful day. It's a tough nut to crack and terrible decision with questionable outcomes? Accept what? To agree to disagree with everyone and everything going on in your life? To be eyed with suspicion and hatred? To be BLAMED, SHAMED and TAXED while dying for it? Did nicotine do this to me? LOL Is this Karma for having brain that likes nicotine? Many, many questions. Who is ultimately responsible for the fact that I chose and continue to choose to use nicotine in a very enjoyable way?
No---perhaps you misunderstand my last sentiment. "We" refers to society at large; not the oppressed nicotine user. WE (this time meaning all of the blamed and shamed) DO WIN, if WE are part of the movement to stop using the guns of government to control our neighbor.
Yes--agree to disagree. Respect their choices right up until their choice is coercion. Force used in self defense is NOT coercion.
I will not board the train for the camp, but neither will I ever point at someone who I find objectionable (honestly, I can't really think of anyone who qualifies, other than those who text while driving) to be loaded onto them. Vape and enjoy, while you can; then vape in the shadows if we must.
Yes--agree to disagree. Respect their choices right up until their choice is coercion. Force used in self defense is NOT coercion.
I will not board the train for the camp, but neither will I ever point at someone who I find objectionable (honestly, I can't really think of anyone who qualifies, other than those who text while driving) to be loaded onto them. Vape and enjoy, while you can; then vape in the shadows if we must.
Got it. Thank you Agorizer. Yep, vape like there's no tomorrow since now is all there is.
Saw a newsreport last night that scientists have discovered how Dorito's tricks the mind into thinking you have eaten less than you actually have. That is genius deception. Obesity related health costs are larger than tobacco related health costs every year. Unhealthy foods that promote obesity are flagrantly marketed to children. Bloomberg tried to outlaw large fountain drink sizes, and it was shot down in a court of law. Foods are addictive, just ask anyone who ever tried to diet. Smokers, tobacco, nicotine in general have been discriminated against. The people have the power to change all of this. The problem is we have been overwhelmed with the government regulating our lives for such a long time, that we are complacent. These freedoms that made our country great our going to continue to diminish unless we stand up and do something. EVERYONE has to get involved. Afterall it is OUR country.
Should the people stand up and put an end to all this insanity ??
Hell Yes !!
Will they ??
Hell No !!
Why? ... That would require cutting entitlements and reducing the size of government.
That would mean some being fired and or loosing entitlements.
No presidential canadate can even dream of winning elections ... any more ...
if running on the platform of a "REAL" balanced budget and Real reduction
in the size of government and entitlements.
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Isn't deeming dead for now? I read that FDA was a skeleton crew - on the same list with the EPA and other regulatory agencies. The article was talking about no food safety inspections because of the shut down. R&D approvals for pharmaceuticals had also ended. I expected someone here would know for sure.
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