How are you preparing for the vapocalypse?
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There are a couple considerations with nic base and juice. It's the choke of the entire industry and the Gov obviously knows this. One of the burning questions is whether or not bottled juice will be allowed across the board. I think it will but there's no guaranty. Only allowing disposable and sealed tanks or cartos is possible. There has already been a media push and propaganda campaign showing bottled juice can be a clear and pleasant danger. It's a worst case scenario and I have my doubts but it makes me nervous nonetheless. We worry about the hardware grandfather date but in reality, if a worst case scenario goes down the hardware we enjoy today could be rendered useless if free flowing bottled juice goes away.
Second consideration is if bottled juice is allowed, what strength can be purchased? My gut tells me that no way will 100mg/ml unflavored nic base be sold off the shelf if regs pass. There will be strength limits. Could be as low as 24-36mg/ml. Anything higher requires the end user to be able to mix it down by themselves. The Government absolutely loves to protect us from ourselves and at a great expense of our personal freedom. It's nauseating.
Third consideration is if bottled juice is allowed, how can we buy it? My gut tells me that it will be in retail stores only and taxed just like cigarettes. State tax stamps on each bottle. No more internet purchases with anything containing nicotine. Nic is the choke for the industry and tax revenue and States will take their slice. No doubt in my mind.
Lastly is flavors. Will flavored juice be allowed to be sold and if so, who is allowed to mix it? I think flavored juice has such a stronghold it will end up being allowed just like off the shelf mixed drinks and wine coolers and such. At the very least, unflavored juice will definitely be sold so people can flavor their own. I could envision all kinds of boutique vendors that sell only flavors "for cooking" that taste great for vaping. lol. If flavored premix is permitted then I could see only the bigger ones surviving the burden of cost, regulated production, and distribution. There will be large brands of premix on the shelves. Probably really good juice so that's not a worry. But it won't be like today imho.
The whole situation really sucks because no matter what regs get passed, the landscape of the industry will likely change quite a bit. Recreational vices come with regulation. vaping will be no different than alcohol and gambling. Regs, taxes, and bigger players having a massive advantage. As much as I want to believe the cottage industry we have today survives unscathed, it's unlikely based on the past history of decision makers when it comes to stuff like this. Brick and mortars may survive but the highest margin product (juice) will be taken away. If juice is on the shelves of Walmart or any big chain, they will set the margins and it will be low. The cost will be high everywhere but it won't be from markup.
I already got into DIY over a year ago and have a 5+ year supply stored properly. If I was totally unprepared today, I would probably just take care of my nic while it's easy and cheap and be prepared to grab hardware if things go down in one of the worst case scenarios
Second consideration is if bottled juice is allowed, what strength can be purchased? My gut tells me that no way will 100mg/ml unflavored nic base be sold off the shelf if regs pass. There will be strength limits. Could be as low as 24-36mg/ml. Anything higher requires the end user to be able to mix it down by themselves. The Government absolutely loves to protect us from ourselves and at a great expense of our personal freedom. It's nauseating.
Third consideration is if bottled juice is allowed, how can we buy it? My gut tells me that it will be in retail stores only and taxed just like cigarettes. State tax stamps on each bottle. No more internet purchases with anything containing nicotine. Nic is the choke for the industry and tax revenue and States will take their slice. No doubt in my mind.
Lastly is flavors. Will flavored juice be allowed to be sold and if so, who is allowed to mix it? I think flavored juice has such a stronghold it will end up being allowed just like off the shelf mixed drinks and wine coolers and such. At the very least, unflavored juice will definitely be sold so people can flavor their own. I could envision all kinds of boutique vendors that sell only flavors "for cooking" that taste great for vaping. lol. If flavored premix is permitted then I could see only the bigger ones surviving the burden of cost, regulated production, and distribution. There will be large brands of premix on the shelves. Probably really good juice so that's not a worry. But it won't be like today imho.
The whole situation really sucks because no matter what regs get passed, the landscape of the industry will likely change quite a bit. Recreational vices come with regulation. vaping will be no different than alcohol and gambling. Regs, taxes, and bigger players having a massive advantage. As much as I want to believe the cottage industry we have today survives unscathed, it's unlikely based on the past history of decision makers when it comes to stuff like this. Brick and mortars may survive but the highest margin product (juice) will be taken away. If juice is on the shelves of Walmart or any big chain, they will set the margins and it will be low. The cost will be high everywhere but it won't be from markup.
I already got into DIY over a year ago and have a 5+ year supply stored properly. If I was totally unprepared today, I would probably just take care of my nic while it's easy and cheap and be prepared to grab hardware if things go down in one of the worst case scenarios
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Great post Bob Chill! These are the good old days. To anyone stashing away nic without any DIY experience, I recommend that you learn to DIY NOW, while there is plenty of info and people willing to share their experience. Read the safety stickie's in the DIY forum. Read up and figure out what flavorings you may want to have on hand. Learn how to use these things while the getting is good. I was intimidated to take my first steps into self sufficiency by going DIY, I haven't purchased pre-made
e-liquid in over a years time now. It just takes a little research to become proficient, and safe at doing this. June is just around the corner, and the tide is coming in...
e-liquid in over a years time now. It just takes a little research to become proficient, and safe at doing this. June is just around the corner, and the tide is coming in...
Yes you can! Get involved in YOUR government. Make YOUR voice heard. Educate them and their constituents. Educate yourself and vote according to your interests and those that are best for your community. Stop being sheep.
I vote in every election. I live in a very liberal state, and nothing I vote for ever goes the way i vote. I can write as many letters to the shot callers, but their decision has already been made. You try to stop cali from spending 75 million dollars to scare adults from vaping to quit cigs. I'm in long Island NY. There's nothing I can do, it's out of my hands. I'm very politically aware, I know my local government from the comptroller and up, but that doesn't mean that I can make any changes in this hyper liberal environment. It is what it is, the masses vote these people in and they create laws to limit our rights. And at this point, the public is voting for them to make more laws, so it's not like I can stand on a street corner with a sandwich board and change any of their minds. I've got a governor that calls a state of emergency for 3" of snow. The mayor of nyc shuts down the subways for that much snow. We love in a law loving society. So no, I don't have the power to change this machine. I'm moving to a state that's more in tune with how I feel. That's the real way to find change. But with the burden of federal laws lately, that option is dwindling too.
Amen brother! I grew up in Manhasset, then Seaford, Massapequa, Ronkonkoma, then Ridge. Now we live upstate...what has changed....scenery. We also want to leave and go South for the same reason. Taxes...inability to survive, ;lack or representation... Trust me, I get it!
Thank you ENOUD. This time around with regs it's the real deal. Unlike the previous attempt that got squashed, now the industry is in the billions with exponentially more users than just 3-4 years ago. Plenty of attention has been drawn and big business + tax revenue is threatened. The pressure on the FDA is to pass things faster. I'm sure some are holding hope that it either keeps gets pushed back in time or squashed all together. Both of those options seem very unlikely at this time.
One of the more troubling things is the heavy hitting BT industry has the most influence on law makers. And they want control with disposables. It's seems like we've gone too far to take a step that far in reverse. It would be devastating on so many levels if we did. On the flip side, there is such strong and compelling evidence that tank style systems are far superior to the little french fry cigalikes that it wouldn't make sense to eliminate tanks. But the steep increase in e-liquid poisoning reports and now a toddlers death is doing us no favors. Many more questions than answers with what's going to happen. That's for sure. I personally have no confidence in an outcome that I find acceptable either way.
RJ Reynolds has been lobbying in Vermont for a flavor ban and limiting vaping to nonrefillables. A lot of money in that push and the politicos are grabbing hold.
e-liquid poisoning reports
I just spent a few minutes reading the hits on a google search of the above. That one year old child's death is under investigation. One year old! I sincerely hope that the focus of that investigation falls on the gross negligence of the parent or guardian. (was ruled as an accidental poisoning)
I just spent a few minutes reading the hits on a google search of the above. That one year old child's death is under investigation. One year old!
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Must have been a very precocious 1 year old. Unscrewing the cap and gulping the whole bottle in less than 1 minute?
here is a thread i started concerning the death of that child.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-update-ny-child-dies-nicotine-poisoning.html
ike
At least you could field strip a cigarette when out & about.
Last time I checked, there were some pretty pristine places in Vermont. I can just hear the environmentalists screaming when those "nonrefillables" start getting discarded all over the place.
That's what I don't understand. All these hippy liberals are listening to the money telling them to outlaw anything that doesn't get thrown out.. Don't we have enough waste? The only thing I throw out is cotton and coil sometimes. But they'll do what they want. I can vote all I want, but that's not gonna change anything. Just gotta be self sufficient. Stock up on nic, start diy juice, and hope the supplies don't get limited. It will suck for the next guy who wants to quit though.
Appreciate it WZ. I've been an entrepreneur and small business owner most of my life. I had one of my businesses get regulated out of existence because the Fed Gov needed to "protect us from ourselves". Saddest day of my life letting 15 long time employees go. Puts a lump in my throat just thinking about it. It's been a never ending process for decades now. The erosion of personal liberty and freedom in the US would make our Founding Fathers roll over in their graves and vomit. The writing is on the wall in many ways for the vape industry.
I'm a true libertarian in many ways. Not like the faux tea party dolts or any other politician (except for Gary Johnson). More choices in life are always better than less choices even if it means there are more bad choices. I know what's best for myself and my family and it's MY job to protect and guide them.
Crusaders against vaping make get under my skin like no other. The ANTZ crew sits up on a high horse on this issue but god forbid they get threatened by something that is important to them in their personal life. Like banning their favorite herbal supplement or making behemoth SUV's illegal because they gulp gas like a yacht or whatever. My core belief is everyone is free to make choices and suffer consequences if they are bad choices as long as they aren't directly hurting other people in the process.
The hypocrisy with ANTZ, FDA, and CDC is disgusting and irresponsible . We're starting down the barrel of a modern day miracle to effectively keep people from starting smoking and getting people off of smoking. Something that has been sought after for decades. But in some twisted form of logic that will never make sense to me these folks are at the forefront of trying to slander, mislead, and lie their way into taking it all away.
Does it surprise me? Nope. Not at all. I've watched this movie too many times already. Will they be successful? Yes, in some fashion they surely will be.
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Thanks for sharing that, and for all your work trying to get to the facts.
People want to legislate morality, they have been at it for a long time. Funny that in our information age, it is just as easy for them to disseminate false information as it was back in the 1930's. Big business and the do goodie good do gooders in bed together fighting a new demon.
I don't see any morality in pushing tobacco cigarettes over e-cigs.
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