IHOP bans indoor vaping
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You all realize, don't you, that this argument will NEVER be resolved? 
I only hope one of these posts are not THE 10,000,000th post 
Carry on............ I know you want to
I only hope one of these posts are not THE 10,000,000th post Carry on............ I know you want to
You all realize, don't you, that this argument will NEVER be resolved?
I'm Not really arguing.
Just trying to Point Out that sometimes a person's Actions can have Repercussions that are Greater than what they can Imagine.
sure we can ban them, infact most perfumes and such make me sick.
but then again heavy perfume and bad BO are matters of common courtesy.
and I have never advocated banning in this thread, only courtesy. (i'm going to stop using 'common courtesy' and 'common sense' because well they're not common anymore). Infact I think things are over regulated as is, that the loudest voices / deepest pockets are in control and unfortunately we as vapers as guilty until proven innocent by THEIR standards.
Fair? nope.. Right? hardly... still true. So we have the obligation to make things better for OURSELVES. vaping is not a 'right' smoking neither.
I'm sure there are folks that will take this as me being some roll over, or self hating vaper. but I've been through fights like this before. only last time it was "why should I have to make sure that the guy in the wheelchair can get into my store? Use the facilities etc..
Fight with logic, with guile and with their own rules. And above all PICK your fights!
I do not want to see vaping go the way of cigarette smoking.
I wonder if this came about when a newly-converted salt-of-the-earth type puffed away "cuz ah can cuz it's water vapor" and made a scene. That probably upset everyone involved. And so a new rule was made.
This "you can vape anywhere!" mentality is (like Robino said), a neverending argument. Common courtesy and a little bit of common sense goes a long way.
Also, like another poster said, their business, their rules. As soon as you walk into that establishment, you've submitted yourselves to their rules, and if you don't like it, don't go there.
P.S. Not everyone who goes to IHOP is drunk. I love their pancakes, and I've only been there sober. It's the Waffle House, that's the place you never went to venture into at 3:20 AM. Anywhere. Ever.
This "you can vape anywhere!" mentality is (like Robino said), a neverending argument. Common courtesy and a little bit of common sense goes a long way.
Also, like another poster said, their business, their rules. As soon as you walk into that establishment, you've submitted yourselves to their rules, and if you don't like it, don't go there.
P.S. Not everyone who goes to IHOP is drunk. I love their pancakes, and I've only been there sober. It's the Waffle House, that's the place you never went to venture into at 3:20 AM. Anywhere. Ever.
It's not a restaurant server's job to educate people on electronic eigarettes. Their job is to serve food.
And in Washington state, pot, marry jane, marij.........man, what was I talking about? Could sommmmmmmone passsss me the waffles? I'm al the suddddenly feeling hungry.......
Look, I don't smoke cigs (used to for 27 years), or ......... (used to back in the 70's/80's), and don't want their clouds around me or my kids. I think they have a choice to do them where it doesn't affect my family. IMHO, most people probably feel this way. I do sympathize with their plight because it is similar to our own. But, you will never get a hardened non-smoker to believe vapor is not along the same lines. Just try to educate a brick wall and you'll get the point. The reality is that there is A LOT more of them than us. They have a greater (larger) voting demographic with a large corporate, media, and governmental backing. Should we educate with every oportunity? ABSOLUTELY! But don't blow vapor in there face to try to get them to listen/notice. That's the wrong approach that will most often garner the wrong results. Consider approaching the establishment first before vaping up, and educate before a confrontation starts. Matter of fact, start a group in your area that goes to businesses, educates them, and lists those businesses that don't mind for vaporers to patronize, and get the word out to other vaporers in a local web/newspaper listing. If we respect them then we will give them no reason to disrespect us. As stated in so many posts, a little common sense and problem solving will benefit you and the businesses that participate.
From the uneducated masses point of view, it's the vaoprers who are causing the harm. They see vapor, it looks like smoke to them, so it must be smoke! They don't think past that, and when they're trying to sit with their family in a restaurant, they are paying good money to try to enjoy themselves without someone blowing anything (smoke, vapor, mucus (sneeze/cough)) in their face. And they certainly don't want to take the time to be educated! They have been miss-educated since preschool on the hazards of what appears to be smoke coming from your mouth. We know it's vapor, but they don't and THEY DON'T CARE! In their indoctrinated minds, it's bad. And, in their indoctrinated minds, you're bad for exposing their child to it and themselves. So, in their indoctrinated minds, they will ban vapor products because they are only protecting their children! And what politician isn't going to come down on the side of "saving the children" from any perceived (or miss-perceived in this case) threat? Nope, he will save the children by banning products that are a perceived threat. He will be voted in again because he did so. And he will vote again the same way because it got him voted back in the last time. Doesn't matter if he's wrong, He's working for a living and making a paycheck for his family by getting voted in over and over. He will do the will of the majority of the people, right or wrong, because that's how he makes sure his family lives in a big house and eats at a big table. That's reality, deal with it, respect others around you, or get pushed aside. Ask New Yorkers why they can't drink a large soda if they want in a restaurant. It's because the politicians were bought by a majority voting block to protect their children from getting fat. And guess what, They will be voted in again for doing so.
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You forgot a very big part of their customers... i've never seen an ihop but i believe its a pancake reaturant... And that means that a big part of the after midnight customers are... Potheads... But they wouldnt be complaining thats for sure
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I wish they could ban women wearing half a bottle of cheap perfume.
Come on everyone. It is about being respectful of other people, and common courtesy. You really can't make it through a meal without vaping?
Come on everyone. It is about being respectful of other people, and common courtesy. You really can't make it through a meal without vaping?
Everyone needs to learn them some stealth, If I can stealth with a Vamo then I am sure everybody else can. Or do what you used to do when you smoked, Go in the bathroom and light it up! It can only make an Ihop bathroom smell better. I will admit I have Vaped in restaurants after my meal, only if it was not a crowded place and I was prepared to explain what I was using or stop immediately. The moral of this thread is yes you do have the right to Vape.... As long as you give others the right not to be forced to sit in your cloud of vapor while they are trying to eat there crepes.
That being said, be weary of optical smoke detectors... I might have set one off last week. Talk about getting noticed for vaping in a bad light
That being said, be weary of optical smoke detectors... I might have set one off last week. Talk about getting noticed for vaping in a bad light
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I believe we are deluding ourselves, IMHO, in thinking that vaping is a right. It's a privilege, and one I wear with honor and pride. But a privilege can be taken away, i.e.: driving license. A right can not: i.e.: freedom of speach. Just remember when we thought smoking was a right, well, they showed us didn't they?
And thanks for the tip! I didn't even think about IR smoke detectors, and I'm an AEMT!
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Maybe I more Jaded than Most. Or More of a Realist than Some. But what is the Difference if something is Right or Wrong? Healthy or Unhealthy? Logical or Illogical? A Right or Not a Right?
In the Real World, if something can be Taken Away from a Person or Denied to the Person, that's just What it Is.
I think a Small Group of Vaper's forget that they are Vasty Out Numbered in the Political/Policy making Arena. And that things Like Vaping Bans in Non-Smoking Areas shouldn't be based on what a Majority of the People, all the People, want.
My favorite restaurant now has a sign on the door that says "no smoking or e-cigarettes". Big Shucks Oyster Bar. Dallas/Richardson,TX.
best regards, lm
best regards, lm
They shouldn't, if the majority is wrong (as with miss-understanding vaping vapors), but again, the politician that make the policies/laws/bans/etc. only cares about the majority view, or the manipulation of it. They will of course legislate to the will of the majority of the people, not "We The People" as a whole. It might be wrong, but it's the system we have. Good or bad, and if one doesn't like it? their are other options and I encourage those people to use them. I for one am staying and will have to work the system, I find myself in, to make the best of it. If that means coexisting within a non-smoking society so I don't lose my privilege of vaping, I will just have to learn to coexist. I don't like it when it comes to vaping, but the gestapo isn't currently knocking down my door to take my gear away. If that day ever comes, My vape gear has a nice place set aside for it right beside my ammo and guns under a floorboard somewhere if necessary.
The saddest part is, the "system" we have is built on the core tenet of political pluralism and should reject the tyranny of a majority. Unfortunately that is only possible when firmly founded on a culture of mutual respect and understanding, and requires a flooding of parties and independents to prevent one party/person/set of ideas overwhelming others.
The scary thing is that we can see, as the so-called stable counties become more and more dualist than pluralist, the general will is lost, and with it any chance for mutual respect as we create ever more defined lines between the majority and minority/minorities, carving oppressors and oppressed chip by tiny chip, inciting rebellion and dissatisfaction. Yes, vaping in public is a fairly 'meh' civil liberty - it's not like anyone is lynching your family because you're the 'wrong' religion or anything! - but it is another example of how we are allowing the social contract to ever so slowly deteriorate, and, much like the frog in a slowly heated pan of water who sits contentedly until he boils, we see nothing and will see nothing until our precious democracy devolves into a Hobbesian nightmare.
Right, no more political theory for me tonight! I'll go sleep before I try to raise a revolution.
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Or you can just wait until you leave the restaurant... Personally, I don't see why anyone should ever have to stealth vape. The point of using e-cigs is to emulate smoking (while getting your nic fix). Holding your breath doesn't emulate smoking. Why anyone should feel compelled to hold their breath everywhere they go is beyond me.
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