Nicotine less addictive via vaping then smoking?

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AXIOM_1

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    Sorry, I skim through the novels. I have a short attention span. Kudos to you for being able to do that.
    The only way one can justify vaping is to show its better then smoking. It's still harmful, and If my child smokes I would rather him vape, but if he never smoked I wouldn't want him to vape. That about sums up every point I can possibly make on here.

    Thanks

    No worries, I sort of figured that .... I agree with you and all of the others who have posted in this thread as each has valid points.... Yep, for me nicotine has always been addictive and it is my assumption those tests that were performed were somehow flawed.
     

    tj99959

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    Cmon now. If you vape nicotine EVERY DAY you're a nicotine addict. Most addicts in the world are in denial. And the whole ''HOBBY BULL....'' makes me laugh. So loud btw! Vaping is a necessity for most. I think Vaping is more addicting then cigarettes, Once you start vaping, you want to buy more and more vape products. to the point where the addiction makes you spend more money then you did when you smoked cigarettes, You start saying stuff like you say, and start denying that its bad for you. Vaping isn't good for you either. Its just better then tobacco. I would not want my child to vape or smoke. period! If your a caring parent. We know this forrum is FULL of people stuck in Vape denial. blah blah blah vaping is not bad for you bull..... If your e juice contains nicotine its going to effect your body Stimulants are not good for you over time.

    I don't know if I agree with that or not.
    Remember that the cigarette market thrives on the fact that when you buy a cigarette, you use it ONCE, and then go buy another one (or 20).

    As far as spending more ... NO WAY ... in the time that I have now been vaping, smoking would have cost me somewhere around $18,000.
    I'm probably about $14,000 to the good. (figured on a $300/month smoking budget.(1 carton/week))
     
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    AXIOM_1

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    I kind of wonder sometimes if there is something to what you are saying.

    For instance, I use nicotine, but I'm not addicted to it.
    And I have never felt anything at all when I take in nicotine.


    I personally don't feel that nicotine is nearly as addictive as society has been led to believe.

    But it wouldn't surprise me if some people can become addicted to nicotine.
    And it wouldn't surprise me at all if some could become more quickly or easily addicted than others.

    But all the research shows that never smokers simply do not get addicted to patches.
    So it is what it is.
    :)


    Yes, nicotine addiction is a weird phenomenon for sure. I have dealt with it for 40 years. This is just a thought: It may be that some people are somehow genetically predisposed to addiction from nicotine while others aren't. Maybe that is why that test they performed on those non smokers gave the results that it did. Something like this concept would make that test faulty for sure.
     
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    skoony

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    All I'm saying IS: Nicotine Vaping with Nicotine is addicting. Its affordable and isn't going to kill you quikly. But nicotine is bad for your heart and other organs and overtime ''Can'' do damage. Like I said. Im addicted to nicotine and I vape to not smoke tobacco. Tobacco is worse then Vaping IMO. But Yes not to toot your horn but you are addicted to nicotine and yes It is not a vitamin! LOL
    if you have never used tobacco products nicotine does not cause
    dependency. only 30% of smokers develop a dependency to tobacco
    presumably from the nicotine. this is being disputed with the new
    science. there is no evidence that nicotine in the amounts we use
    it have,can or,will harm your heart or organs immediately or with
    long term use. the FDA has confirmed this by allowing over the counter
    sales of gums and patches as being harmless to healthy users for life and
    harmless to non-users.
    i am not an addict.addiction causes harm to the user and or those
    around him. vaping does not. if you are an otherwise healthy person
    there is absolutely no evidence that vaping is more harmful than
    drinking tap water.
    i am not tooting any horns here. i am am going by the facts as they are.
    i do not fret over things we don't know about vaping when all the things
    we do know say vaping isn't harmful. one could say vaping may cause
    a third eye to grow in the middle of your forehead in twenty years and
    be just as right as any other perceived health risk.
    :2c:
    regards
    mike
     

    DC2

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    ETA: I think that anyone who regularly uses nictotine and says they are not addicted is in denial. If it does nothing for you, why not just vape 0mg then?
    Why should I answer you when you aren't going to believe me anyway?

    Nicotine is good for memory, attention, and concentration.
    And it also might help prevent Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases.

    That's why I use it.
     
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    mattiem

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    As Robino pointed out so simply. One size does not fit all. There are those that have to have their nicotine just as there are those that can take it or leave it and just vape it for the possible health benefits or they just plain enjoy its effects.

    There are many things that folks can and do get to the point of not being able to resist.

    Being addicted (unable to resist) something isn't always a bad thing. The word addict is such a demeaning word that it causes folks to rebel against being labeled as one.

    Some folks have addictive personalities but if they are comfortable with what they are doing, who are we to demean them for it. Sadly I have seen some on this forum that seem to not be able to resist (addicted to) demeaning others for their choices. Wouldn't this be a boring world to live in if we were all the same :)
     

    DaveSignal

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    i am not an addict.addiction causes harm to the user and or those
    around him.
    vaping does not. if you are an otherwise healthy person
    there is absolutely no evidence that vaping is more harmful than
    drinking tap water.
    i am not tooting any horns here. i am am going by the facts as they are.
    i do not fret over things we don't know about vaping when all the things
    we do know say vaping isn't harmful. one could say vaping may cause
    a third eye to grow in the middle of your forehead in twenty years and
    be just as right as any other perceived health risk.
    :2c:
    regards
    mike
    I'm not sure about this. I think addiction is just what happens when the continued use of something becomes compulsive and hard to resist... such as e-liquid with nicotine.
     
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    skoony

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    I'm not sure about this. I think addiction is just what happens when the continued use of something becomes compulsive and hard to resist... such as e-liquid with nicotine.
    your on the right track.
    you are describing dependency not addiction.
    they are two completely different things.
    regards
    mike
     
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    DaveSignal

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    Why should I answer you when you aren't going to believe me anyway?

    Nicotine is good for memory, attention, and concentration.
    And it also might help prevent Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases.

    That's why I use it.
    OK. so you believe it has health benefits and if someone switched out your nicotine juice with 0mg juice, you would have no idea and no desire to inhale something with nicotine? I think that if you stopped using it right now, it you would start thinking about inhaling nicotine again before the end of the day.
     

    tj99959

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    Yes, nicotine addiction is a weird phenomenon for sure. I have dealt with it for 40 years. This is just a thought: It may be that some people are somehow genetically predisposed to addiction from nicotine while others aren't. Maybe that is why that test they performed on those non smokers gave the results that it did. Something like this concept would make that test faulty for sure.

    Anytime that your test subjects are not random selected, your test results will be flawed.
    Kinda like asking only kids that vape if the vape, and then saying kids vaping has increased 500% this year.
    (Weber/Morgan county health here in Utah did that last year to push their agenda)
     
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    DaveSignal

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    your on the right track.
    you are describing dependency not addiction.
    they are two completely different things.
    regards
    mike
    dependency is addiction. I am not sure why you are trying to define it differently. You can develop both a physical and/or mental dependency on many drugs. Nicotine is one of them. And most people would call this addiction.
     

    DC2

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    OK. so you believe it has health benefits and if someone switched out your nicotine juice with 0mg juice, you would have no idea and no desire to inhale something with nicotine? I think that if you stopped using it right now, it you would start thinking about inhaling nicotine again before the end of the day.
    I've already gone days without it.
    Didn't care.

    You're free to think whatever you want.
    But you're wrong.
     

    DaveSignal

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    I've already gone days without it.
    Didn't care.

    You're free to think whatever you want.
    But you're wrong.
    ok, i believe you. I think that you have an atypical tolerance to an addictive drug, though... either way, you are choosing to continue using that drug. So, somewhere you have a desire to keep purchasing/using it.
     

    Jman8

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    I would be curious what other dual users, like myself, have to add to this discussion.

    I do think addictive personalities make more sense than blanket statement of nicotine is addictive. When I went cold turkey from smoking (for 8 years), I also didn't use anything that might trigger smoking (so zero alcohol drinks during that time). But I still experienced addictions.

    As a dual user, I don't crave smoking. I (like most of you) know EXACTLY what it is like to crave a smoke. That used to be a daily phenomenon and generally occurred 5+ times a day, with the other 15 or so smokes that day being in vein of "now's as good of a time as any." Now, as a dual user, I can have up to 5 smokes in day (usually have less than 2) and I am never craving a single one of those. You'd think if nic was addictive, and I was pumping as much as I do via vaping that I'd experience the cravings for smoking regularly. I think in last 6 months, I've maybe (only maybe) craved a smoke once. You'd for sure think a smoker who's experienced cravings for a smoke, and who is now smoking, would experience cravings for a smoke. I do not. Knowing my history with cold turkey, if I were to gamble on whether or not I could stop smoking over the next 30 days, I'd be collecting a lot of money from anyone foolish enough to make such a wager with me. But it would have to be a worthwhile wager, cause moderate smoking rocks that much.

    I do feel that I am addicted to vaping, and do think nic is a contributing factor, but as has already been said in this thread, it is way more the ritual aspect than nic. The nic is just icing on the cake, and I enjoy nicotine. I don't see it as harmless, but compared to the umpteen million other things that one can be addicted to, I do see it as tame. Sugar is for me more addictive, and even work at times. Both of those are not harmless, and can have adverse effects that are made visible. With nicotine, and in age of vaping, it is hard to see the effects in a troublesome way. Like if someone were addicted to reading. That would be tame, and would be unlikely to have noticeably adverse effects. I think a reading addiction would be more tame than nic, but not by a lot.

    People routinely act as if "addiction" is a bad word, but all the "good things" that people are clearly addicted to seemingly slip under the radar as if that's perfectly fine. Chances are very good, the word "addiction" doesn't even come up, and is treated like "something I really enjoy doing, often." Imagine, for just a moment, that this is what vaping is, for the majority: something that people really enjoy doing, often. Sounds a lot nicer than, "you hopeless addict."
     
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    VNeil

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    dependency is addiction. I am not sure why you are trying to define it differently. You can develop both a physical and/or mental dependency on many drugs. Nicotine is one of them. And most people would call this addiction.
    Definition of addiction, per Wikipedia: "Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences"

    Emphasis mine. Words like "addiction" have very specific meanings. Not just what you or anyone else wants the word to mean. There are no significant adverse consequences from ingesting nicotine in the levels we vape.
     

    skoony

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    dependency is addiction. I am not sure why you are trying to define it differently. You can develop both a physical and/or mental dependency on many drugs. Nicotine is one of them. And most people would call this addiction.
    they are two different things for many different reasons.
    smoking is considered an addiction because of the
    harm that the smoke does not,the nicotine.
    people seem to forget that 70% of habitual smokers
    do not develop a dependency to smoking. that's
    why 50% just quit when they get into their 30's.
    nicotine may be classified as a drug but,to compare it to
    other drugs legal or otherwise is very misleading in terms
    of what some of those other drugs legal or otherwise can
    and will do to some ones health and mental stability.
    it not the same thing.
    :2c:
    regards
    mike
     
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    DaveSignal

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    Definition of addiction, per Wikipedia: "Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences"

    Emphasis mine. Words like "addiction" have very specific meanings. Not just what you or anyone else wants the word to mean. There are no significant adverse consequences from ingesting nicotine in the levels we vape.
    it costs money. and if I had no e-juice and no food, I would go out to the vape store and buy e-juice before I went to the corner shop to buy food.

    That is an adverse consequence.
    Therefore, I am compulsively engaging in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences. It fits your definition perfectly.
     
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    AXIOM_1

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    You guys ALL have points and truths, the problem is you aren't coming together on this issue. For example: DaveSignal stated that dependency is addiction and he is 100% correct with that statement. How do I know? Because I spent 60,000 dollars in treatment centers learning all about addiction from the professionals not to mention that I am a bit of an expert since I have been addicted to both nicotine and alcohol. However, this in no way detracts or takes away from the thoughts that DC2 mentioned..... I 100% agree and believe DC2 when he mentioned that he feels he is not addicted and that he can stop for periods of time ingesting nicotine and that he doesn't feel anything. It's 100% feasible and I am not in his body, so I can't make statements about what he does or does not feel.

    Also folks, I have no thoughts or qualms as to WHY people want to vape. ....... I can only state why I myself started vaping. It was to get away from tobacco products, simple as that. It is my "belief" that vaping products are far more safe on myself and others around me than tobacco products are. If someone starts to vape because of other reasons than my own then it is really none of my business and I could care less. For myself, I only know that I am addicted to nicotine and vaping is probably a safer alternative than tobacco products.

    If someone wants to vape because they think it is cool, fun, pleasurable, or all of the above, then knock your socks off. I am not like lots of old timers who seem to get ticked at new vapers who are non-smokers. That isn't me and it is not up to me to point fingers at people. I have enough flaws and problems of my own that need to be worked on without pointing fingers at other people.

    I can only try to explain what I have experienced and felt concerning nicotine (like in this thread) and hope some folks can relate to it and some may actually learn from it.
     

    jpargana

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    Cmon now. If you vape nicotine EVERY DAY you're a nicotine addict. Most addicts in the world are in denial. And the whole ''HOBBY BULL....'' makes me laugh. So loud btw! Vaping is a necessity for most. I think Vaping is more addicting then cigarettes, Once you start vaping, you want to buy more and more vape products. to the point where the addiction makes you spend more money then you did when you smoked cigarettes, You start saying stuff like you say, and start denying that its bad for you. Vaping isn't good for you either. Its just better then tobacco. I would not want my child to vape or smoke. period! If your a caring parent. We know this forrum is FULL of people stuck in Vape denial. blah blah blah vaping is not bad for you bull..... If your e juice contains nicotine its going to effect your body Stimulants are not good for you over time.


    I could easily be spending more than 160 Eur/month on cigarettes.
    I'm spending around 40 Eur/month with vaping.

    You seem to imply that people who spend more on vaping than with cigarettes, do so because they *need* to spend that much to keep their "vaping cravings", and therefore, vaping is a costly "addiction", even more expensive than tobacco cigarettes - excise tax included.

    And this is what I call BS.

    You should not mix up "vaping expenses" with "collectible expenses". And yes, collecting vaping stuff IS part of the "hobby" for some people. But those people spend more to *collect* stuff, not because they *need* it to vape.

    Think for a moment: if you used to collect expensive pipes and Zippo lighters, instead of simply *smoking*, your "smoking" expenses would also be way too high, would they not? And then, maybe "vaping expenses" would *still* be lower than "smoking" expenses.

    Comparing collectible expenses with smoking expenses is like comparing oranges to apples.
     

    SleeZy

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    No worries, I sort of figured that .... I agree with you and all of the others who have posted in this thread as each has valid points.... Yep, for me nicotine has always been addictive and it is my assumption those tests that were performed were somehow flawed.

    Pure nic isn't any more addictive than caffeine which is also a stimulant.

    Why should I answer you when you aren't going to believe me anyway?

    Nicotine is good for memory, attention, and concentration.
    And it also might help prevent Alzheimer's and Parkinson's diseases.

    That's why I use it.

    Agreed, and it also helps with my ADHD although while vaping does not calm me the way smokes did, i can still focus way better. Without it i'm literally climbing the walls out of boredom.

    Some food for thought:
    SFATA | Effects of Nicotine
    E-cigarette versus nicotine inhaler: comparing the perceptions and experiences of inhaled nicotine devices. - PubMed - NCBI
    Nicotine as Therapy

    Long-term effects of inhaled nicotine. - PubMed - NCBI
    The Great Nicotine Myth
    How much nicotine kills a human? Tracing back the generally accepted lethal dose to dubious self-experiments in the nineteenth century - Springer
    Top 10 Studies on Nicotine You Need to Know About!

    Edit: No idea why scribd search went into media... Sorry about that.
    Altho what i wanted to say is, i'm way way less dependant on my vape that i was on my ciggs.
    I can go a whole day without vaping. With smokes i would go nearly mental after 2hours without one. This if anything proves that vaping/smoking/inhaling pure nicotine isn't as addictive as ppl want to believe.

    What most ppl (incl me) has issues with is the hand to mouth sensation.
     
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