Nicotine less addictive via vaping then smoking?

[DaveSignal]

And that has what to do with the neuroscience if dependency ?

@DC2 mentioned it, but the faster, more intense feeling of inhalation should, IMO, have a much higher potential for addiction than any other method of consumption, except for direct injection to the bloodstream. The skin can absorb a lot of things. But it doesn't give the same kind of effect.

We are debating why people seemingly get addicted to nicotine from cigarettes, but not from skin patches. But, somehow, skin patches will appease the cravings of some people who used to be smokers. So far in this thread, it has been offered that there must be some mysterious addictive ingredient in cigarettes that when combined with nicotine was somehow able to make users dependant, but nobody has known about this ingredient for all of these years. And I am saying that it is simply because the users are inhaling the drug. Just like they do when vaping. And this is why vaping is a more successful smoking cessation method than is nicotine patches. Even if you went through all of the hand and mouth motions with a vaporizer containing 0mg juice while wearing a nicotine patch, I don't think it would work. It works because the drug is inhaled. In new users, this inhalation is also what creates the dependency.

I am not ANTZ. I love vaping. We need to find a way to stop regulation. But I don't think that is going to happen by denying the obvious fact that nicotine can be an addictive drug. We need to concentrate more on showing that nicotine addiction is harmless and that vaping is not a gateway to smoking tobacco.

 

[VNeil]

@DC2 mentioned it, but the faster, more intense feeling of inhalation should, IMO, have a much higher potential for addiction than any other method of consumption, except for direct injection to the bloodstream. The skin can absorb a lot of things. But it doesn't give the same kind of effect.

We are debating why people seemingly get addicted to nicotine from cigarettes, but not from skin patches. But, somehow, skin patches will appease the cravings of some people who used to be smokers. So far in this thread, it has been offered that there must be some mysterious addictive ingredient in cigarettes that when combined with nicotine was somehow able to make users dependant, but nobody has known about this ingredient for all of these years. And I am saying that it is simply because the users are inhaling the drug. Just like they do when vaping. And this is why vaping is a more successful smoking cessation method than is nicotine patches. Even if you went through all of the hand and mouth motions with a vaporizer containing 0mg juice while wearing a nicotine patch, I don't think it would work. It works because the drug is inhaled. In new users, this inhalation is also what creates the dependency.

I am not ANTZ. I love vaping. We need to find a way to stop regulation. But I don't think that is going to happen by denying the obvious fact that nicotine can be an addictive drug. We need to concentrate more on showing that nicotine addiction is harmless and that vaping is not a gateway to smoking tobacco.

You are purely speculating. And it was well known since the original NRT, Nicorette gum, that something was missing. I know because I was an early adopter in the prescription era. Nothing "New" here except a big forum full of people talking about it.

It is the general consensus here that most of the vape is absorbed in the mouth and mucus membranes, not the lungs as cigs are. Same as Nicotine gum and lozenges. So I'm not sure that the facts of the matter are all obvious here. Certainly some is absorbed in the lungs but we are in no position to come to any conclusions as to amounts and etc ?

Over time we will find out when the results come in from the never-smokers that vape. Until then it is just speculation. Personally I try to avoid speculating about these things.

 

[jrlakeman]

Analogs have pyrazine. Why? Makes addiction stronger ppl that quit smoking more likely to go back. Bottom line BT dont want there customers quitting so they put in chemicals to insure that. Thank god we have vaping us ex smokers have the power to fight that addiction and stop the cycle of smoking. Now the nicotine we vape barely addictive i forget to vape most the day. Could i do that with analogs ,not a chance i was thinking of my next one after i just had one...

 

[AXIOM_1]

@DC2 mentioned it, but the faster, more intense feeling of inhalation should, IMO, have a much higher potential for addiction than any other method of consumption, except for direct injection to the bloodstream. The skin can absorb a lot of things. But it doesn't give the same kind of effect.

We are debating why people seemingly get addicted to nicotine from cigarettes, but not from skin patches. But, somehow, skin patches will appease the cravings of some people who used to be smokers. So far in this thread, it has been offered that there must be some mysterious addictive ingredient in cigarettes that when combined with nicotine was somehow able to make users dependant, but nobody has known about this ingredient for all of these years. And I am saying that it is simply because the users are inhaling the drug. Just like they do when vaping. And this is why vaping is a more successful smoking cessation method than is nicotine patches. Even if you went through all of the hand and mouth motions with a vaporizer containing 0mg juice while wearing a nicotine patch, I don't think it would work. It works because the drug is inhaled. In new users, this inhalation is also what creates the dependency.

I am not ANTZ. I love vaping. We need to find a way to stop regulation. But I don't think that is going to happen by denying the obvious fact that nicotine can be an addictive drug. We need to concentrate more on showing that nicotine addiction is harmless and that vaping is not a gateway to smoking tobacco.

Dave ....hmmm interesting thought............. Your assumption makes sense except for the studies that were done with "never smokers".. They did not exhibit any dependencies on nicotine. Of course, I do not know how the nicotine was delivered to them. Was it through inhalation, oral or what?

 

[VNeil]

Even if you went through all of the hand and mouth motions with a vaporizer containing 0mg juice while wearing a nicotine patch, I don't think it would work.

Actually, I recall someone in this forum discussing having done exactly that- 0mg juice and the patch, and claimed it was very effective. So again, you are speculating on the efficacy of something for which you have zero data.

 

[DaveSignal]

Dave ....hmmm interesting thought............. Your assumption makes sense except for the studies that were done with "never smokers".. They did not exhibit any dependencies on nicotine. Of course, I do not know how the nicotine was delivered to them. Was it through inhalation, oral or what?

They were exposed to traditional NRTs, so either patches or gum.

 

[Jman8]

Just because thats what it is doesn't make it a bad thing. Drugs are used to save many lives, every day. The drug we are talking about improves our lives without destroying our health or making us robbing criminals. Its a safe recreational drug.

I agree that nicotine is a drug.

ETA: capsaicin is a drug. tomatoes are not. i think its crazy that i need to explain this.

Was going to add a "but" statement after my point above, yet this point makes it easier to do it. (But) It is false to say eLiquid is a drug. It may contain drugs, but many foods contain drugs.

And it is possible that eLiquid wouldn't contain a drug, though even that may be debatable as zero nic eLiquid would arguably still contain drugs.

But reason a thread like this is getting debate / counter point is because of how this particular drug, nicotine, is stigmatized. It really strains the credibility of the concept "addiction." We live in a world culture that seemingly accepts the assertion "nicotine is highly addictive" without consideration.

I'm curious if anyone reading this can name a substance, or activity, that isn't addictive (for anyone). I bet you can't.

 

[skoony]

Just because it came from a pepper doesn't mean its not a drug. It has a direct effect on the nervous system and is extracted and prescribed as a drug. Many drugs occur naturally, some are illegal. There is another drug that comes from the Coca plant. And another that comes from Poppy seeds.

what ever the government classifies as a drug is a drug according to the government.
there is no requirement for anything classified as a drug to affect the central nervous system.
mike

 

[DaveSignal]

Actually, I recall someone in this forum discussing having done exactly that- 0mg juice and the patch, and claimed it was very effective. So again, you are speculating on the efficacy of something for which you have zero data.

Well patches can be effective just by themselves. I have used them before. They are just less effective.

 

[VNeil]

Well patches can be effective just by themselves. I have used them before. They are just less effective.

When you get some vapers to vape 0mg juice with patches and track the results, let me know. Until then you are just speculating on what is and isn't effective. Am I correct you've never even tried the method you claim to be "less effective"???

 

[AXIOM_1]

I agree that nicotine is a drug.
I'm curious if anyone reading this can name a substance, or activity, that isn't addictive (for anyone). I bet you can't.

I can .... death lol

 

[Jman8]

I can .... death lol

How is death not addictive? Everyone (ever) does it. (Wink)

 

[DaveSignal]

When you get some vapers to vape 0mg juice with patches and track the results, let me know. Until then you are just speculating on what is and isn't effective. Am I correct you've never even tried the method you claim to be "less effective"???

I have stopped smoking for months before using patches, so I know it could work. But I also know that I wouldn't enjoy it as much I enjoy vaping my nicotine.

 

[DaveSignal]

there is no requirement for anything classified as a drug to affect the central nervous system.
mike

maybe, but these drugs are few and far between. I can't think of any. Maybe contaceptive pills work without CNS stimualtion, but the hormones have substaial effect on it anyway.

 

[AXIOM_1]

How is death not addictive? Everyone (ever) does it. (Wink)

lol ... yes, I suppose it is all in how you look at it

 

[skoony]

maybe, but these drugs are few and far between. I can't think of any. Maybe contaceptive pills work without CNS stimualtion, but the hormones have substaial effect on it anyway.

most drugs do not in fact affect the central nervous system.
JFYI.
mike

 

[DaveSignal]

most drugs do not in fact affect the central nervous system.
JFYI.
mike

can you list some? because of the top of my head I am thinking: pain relievers, stimulants, sedatives, muscle relaxants, sleeping medication, depressants, anesthetics, opiates, hallucianagens, ... ah wait, antacids.. these are chemicals that neutralize acids in the stomach. I suppose laxatives work in a similar way. But I don't think thats most drugs.

ETA: and steroids too... I think. I might have to look into that one.
EDIT: nope.. i was wrong about steriods. Thses drugs are essentially testostone and can be highly addictive and have huge CNS effects.

 

[SleeZy]

I have stopped smoking for months before using patches, so I know it could work. But I also know that I wouldn't enjoy it as much I enjoy vaping my nicotine.

"Could work" yea.. it could.
Yes vaping is far more (imo) more effective, purely due the fact that you get that mouth to loung / hand to mouth sensation.
The ammount of nic i get with vaping is far less than those patches or gums, due they're made to release x/y ammount of nic. (Not mentioning the other chems with it.)

Say... vaping:

• Propylene Glycol
• Vegetable Glycerin
• Flavoring
• Nicotine

Then we've nicorette quickmist for example:

• Propylene Glycol
• Anhydrous Ethanol
• Trometamol
• Poloxamer 407
• Glycerol
• Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate
• Levomenthol
• Mint Flavour
• Cooling Flavour
• Sucralose
• Acesulfame Potassium
• Hydrochloric Acid
• Purified Water
• Nicotine

Now that's a shocker isn't it?

 

[DaveSignal]

"Could work" yea.. it could.
Yes vaping is far more (imo) more effective, purely due the fact that you get that mouth to loung / hand to mouth sensation.
The ammount of nic i get with vaping is far less than those patches or gums, due they're made to release x/y ammount of nic. (Not mentioning the other chems with it.)

Say... vaping:

• Propylene Glycol
• Vegetable Glycerin
• Flavoring
• Nicotine

Then we've nicorette quickmist for example:

• Propylene Glycol
• Anhydrous Ethanol
• Trometamol
• Poloxamer 407
• Glycerol
• Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate
• Levomenthol
• Mint Flavour
• Cooling Flavour
• Sucralose
• Acesulfame Potassium
• Hydrochloric Acid
• Purified Water
• Nicotine

Now that's a shocker isn't it?

What we were talking about was would the feeling be the same if you were just wearing a nicotine patch and vaping 0mg juice?
I don't think so. You would lose the urges to be vaping. I mean, you would still vape out of habit, but you would lose that sudden satisfaction.

 

[SleeZy]

What we were talking about was would the feeling be the same if you were just wearing a nicotine patch and vaping 0mg juice?
I don't think so. You would lose the urges to be vaping. I mean, you would still vape out of habit, but you would lose that sudden satisfaction.

Edit: I did re-read your answer again, and i might have misinterpret your post earlier. But i'll let my WoT stick around anyway.

Yea i agree it'll stop that sudden "satisfaction" - feeling. But vaping fullfills something most of us are missing when we want to quit smoking. The hand to mouth... or even to inhale. Which vaping gives us. But it does not give us any more nic than anything else realy.

Patches and gums / inhalers has for me personally just failed, as for many others. Just due the fact that most of us crave that mouth to lung/ hand to mouth sensation.

But then back on topic, as i've said. Atleast for me i can go a day or even 2 without vaping. I just feel the same urge for vaping as i do with coffee.
Granted i do intentionally use nicotine due it helps me to focus way better. (Browse my history if u wanna know more, not gonna boast it out here.)

However, what most and maybe even you feel "addicted" to is the sensation of smoking (in our case vaping.) I realy doubt it's the nicotine you realy crave.
Nicotine is good for us though due it's a mild stimulant just like caffeine. Also it's quite a huge amount of it in our vegitables, such as tomatoes.

Oh well all in all, i beg to differ that nicotine would be "so" addicting.
Then the gums/patches/inhalers would be aswell. Yet you now know what they include with them.

Funny though, both PG and VG is present in the inhalers for example. Yet FDA want to tell us how bad it is, and we're vaping antifreeze...
Yea right.

It's all about the money. Well i went abit oT sorry about that.