Nicotine less addictive via vaping then smoking?

[zoiDman]

what do you think when an ANTZ uses the word addiction or addict?
what do you believe they want you to think when they use those words?
people not only use these words as a judgement but,as the nail they
hope to hammer their arguments down.
your an addict. your opinion doesn't mater.

regards
mike

Once again Mike, doesn't much of this Depend on the Context and the Setting?

Who Do you see as "ANTZ" who are using the word "Addiction" as a Judgment here in this Thread?

 

[zoiDman]

And we are straying quite far from the topic. As usual

Hey at Least we are Dependable.

 

[Robino1]

Sometimes dependable is not a good thing

Edit to add a smiley

 

[VNeil]

Once again Mike, doesn't much of this Depend on the Context and the Setting?

Do see your "ANTZ" who are using the word "Addiction" as a Judgment here in this Thread?

Just because someone is a vaper, and advocates vaping, does not mean that their thinking has not been seriously affected by ANTZ propaganda. And that is at the core of this disagreement, including the comments I made earlier.

 

[juicynoos]

Am addicted to love, dependent on my family and vaping voluptuous quantities of flavorful, zero nic juice that I have no desire to do without lest I revert back to cigarette addiction..err, dependence

 

[zoiDman]

Sometimes dependable is not a good thing

Edit to add a smiley

I look at it this way. If we weren't here, Running Off the Rails, and making Life Miserable for the MODs, we would be Out There doing it in Bars and Restaurants and Movie Theaters and Grocery Stores and ...

At least Here, we are All in One Place. And it is Easy to Throw a Net over us.

 

[zoiDman]

Just because someone is a vaper, and advocates vaping, does not mean that their thinking has not been seriously affected by ANTZ propaganda. And that is at the core of this disagreement, including the comments I made earlier.

I agree.

Because I think some people are starting to see ANTZ as Anyone who does not Agree with there what they think about e-Cigarettes.

 

[skoony]

Once again Mike, doesn't much of this Depend on the Context and the Setting?

Do see your "ANTZ" who are using the word "Addiction" as a Judgment here in this Thread?

do you want me to name names?
have read the posts in this thread?
" your all just addicts"
regards
mike

 

[zoiDman]

do you want me to name names?
have read the posts in this thread?
" your all just addicts"
regards
mike

No... Naming Names Isn't going to Help this Thread.

And I Don't Agree with someone saying " your all just addicts". Because I know that Most people will see this as being Derogatory. And perhaps, Rightfully so.

But here is the Question. Is this person Now an ANTZ because they used that choice of Words?

 

[Robino1]

do you want me to name names?
have read the posts in this thread?
" your all just addicts"
regards
mike

Please do not name any names. Thanks

 

[VNeil]

I agree.

Because I think some people are starting to see ANTZ as Anyone who does not Agree with there what they think about e-Cigarettes.

Not what I meant. Many (maybe most) vapers are believing, deep down, at some level, all the propaganda. An example, I see this all the time here, stated by committed vapers:

"I believe vaping is less harmful than cigs but it can't be healthy"

Where does "can't" come from? It comes from all the lies pounding into our heads. Think about it.

Edit: Above I said "all the propaganda" where I should have said "at least some of the propaganda".

 

[zoiDman]

Not what I meant. Many (maybe most) vapers are believing, deep down, at some level, all the propaganda. An example, I see this all the time here, stated by committed vapers:

"I believe vaping is less harmful than cigs but it can't be healthy"

Where does "can't" come from? It comes from all the lies pounding into our heads. Think about it.

I believe that Vaping on Average is Much Healthier than Smoking. Absolutely. But I Can't say that Vaping is Not without its Risks.

And it Isn't the Nicotine that is my Big Concern. It is the High Levels of Flavorings, Sweeteners, Colorants in the Amounts that the Average Vaper Inhales 7 Days a Week, 365 a year that Concerns me.

 

[VNeil]

I believe that Vaping on Average is Much Healthier than Smoking. Absolutely. But I Can't say that Vaping is Not without its Risks.

And it Isn't the Nicotine that is my Big Concern. It is the High Levels of Flavorings, Sweeteners, Colorants in the Amounts that the Average Vaper Inhales 7 Days a Week, 365 a year that Concerns me.

zoiDman, do you believe that those risks are greater than the hundreds of other risks you take in everyday life, that you never worry about, because they are not continually propagandized? Think carefully.

 

[VNeil]

But I Can't say that Vaping is Not without its Risks.

That is the number one strategy of the propagandist... "I defy you to prove a negative"

And the argument of "But I Can't say that [insert anything here] is Not without its Risks" can be made for ANYTHING in life. It is an irrelevant and illogical argument. If you applied the same argument to hundreds of everyday products and behaviors you would go insane. And probably just jump off a bridge. But we don't because for most things we take the more reasoned approach of accepting the risks of modern life.

It is extremely effective propaganda, and 99% of the vapers here suffer from it (edit:to some degree or another).

FUD. Fear, uncertainty, doubt. The first weapon of the ANTZ propagandist.

 

[VNeil]

That is the number one strategy of the propagandist... "I defy you to prove a negative"

And the argument of "But I Can't say that [insert anything here] is Not without its Risks" can be made for ANYTHING in life. It is an irrelevant and illogical argument. If you applied the same argument to hundreds of everyday products and behaviors you would go insane. And probably just jump off a bridge. But we don't because for most things we take the more reasoned approach of accepting the risks of modern life.

It is extremely effective propaganda, and 99% of the vapers here suffer from it (edit:to some degree or another).

FUD. Fear, uncertainty, doubt. The first weapon of the ANTZ propagandist.

I want to edit the above with emphasis:

"But we don't because for most things we take the more reasoned approach of accepting the UNKNOWN AND UNQUANTIFIABLE risks of modern life."

Worrying about the unknown is irrational, and bad for your mental health. It's called "anxiety". Yet the propaganda of FUD is intended to instill that unhealthy anxiety in the target.

 

[Robino1]

That is the number one strategy of the propagandist... "I defy you to prove a negative"

And the argument of "But I Can't say that [insert anything here] is Not without its Risks" can be made for ANYTHING in life. It is an irrelevant and illogical argument. If you applied the same argument to hundreds of everyday products and behaviors you would go insane. And probably just jump off a bridge. But we don't because for most things we take the more reasoned approach of accepting the risks of modern life.

It is extremely effective propaganda, and 99% of the vapers here suffer from it (edit:to some degree or another).

FUD. Fear, uncertainty, doubt. The first weapon of the ANTZ propagandist.

To be fair, most of it is because we were so stigmatized as smokers it is hard to break from that chain that was slowly wrapped around us for so long.

Kinda like breaking the HABIT of smoking that ecigs provide.

 

[VNeil]

To be fair, most of it is because we were so stigmatized as smokers it is hard to break from that chain that was slowly wrapped around us for so long.

Kinda like breaking the HABIT of smoking that ecigs provide.

I'm being very fair. I am not criticizing anyone here. I am stating what I believe to be a fact that we are all affected by the ANTZ propaganda, and that goes back to before vaping even existed. All I'm suggesting is that people should reflect on that and consider where their opinions come from. It is a fact that many of our opinions and beliefs come from the same people we rail against. Isn't that the ultimate irony? I believe that in order to truly understand the debate over vaping that you have to understand that. Otherwise you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back.

 

[zoiDman]

zoiDman, do you believe that those risks are greater than the hundreds of other risks you take in everyday life, that you never worry about, because they are not continually propagandized? Think carefully.

Sure. And it has Nothing to do with ANTZ Propaganda.

Where it is Nice to draw a Box Around some Nameless Face and say that ANTZ are to Blame for Everything. it just Isn't that Simple.

I see things like Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl in e-Liquids as Very Legitimate concerns. Don't need your ANTZ to Demonize it for me.

I also Can't buy into because there Might be Risk in other areas in Life, that someone shouldn't consider Risks in Specific areas.

I view e-Cigarette use as Harm Reduction. Not Harm Elimination. Why is this such a Hard Concept for some to See?

 

[VNeil]

Sure. And it has Nothing to do with ANTZ Propaganda.

Where it is Nice to draw a Box Around some Nameless Face and say that ANTZ are to Blame for Everything. it just Isn't that Simple.

I see things like Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl in e-Liquids as Very Legitimate concerns. Don't need your ANTZ to Demonize it for me.

I also Can't buy into because there Might be Risk in other areas in Life, that someone shouldn't consider Risks in Specific areas.

I view e-Cigarette use as Harm Reduction. Not Harm Elimination. Why is this such a Hard Concept for some to See?

I am uncomfortable with the term "harm reduction" used here because it implies that there is a known and quantifiable harm involved in vaping. And the fact is that there isn't. There are only speculations.

There is nothing wrong with vaping unflavored if you believe the unknown and unquantifiable risks of flavoring are not worthwhile for you. But I think for discussion purposes the risk should be well defined. And in truth it is an totally unknown and speculative risk.

(I don't want to get into the details of the flavoring debate, I'll just say that I'm not personally convinced it is beyond pure speculation at this point in time.)

 

[zoiDman]

That is the number one strategy of the propagandist... "I defy you to prove a negative"

And the argument of "But I Can't say that [insert anything here] is Not without its Risks" can be made for ANYTHING in life. It is an irrelevant and illogical argument. If you applied the same argument to hundreds of everyday products and behaviors you would go insane. And probably just jump off a bridge. But we don't because for most things we take the more reasoned approach of accepting the risks of modern life.

It is extremely effective propaganda, and 99% of the vapers here suffer from it (edit:to some degree or another).

FUD. Fear, uncertainty, doubt. The first weapon of the ANTZ propagandist.

Where are you getting all these Numbers like 99%? Or "the fact that we are all affected by the ANTZ propaganda"?

Please Exclude me from the Gross Generalities of what You believe that All Vapers Feel or Think.