Nicotine less addictive via vaping then smoking?

[VNeil]

You seem to have a notion a majority of the population actually believes or trusts what the government says...
Again with the propaganda. Just because others don't agree with you doesn't mean they have been brainwashed by propaganda... Perhaps it is easier to simply find someone or something to blame, rather than just accept American society simply doesn't care that much about vaping and isn't willing to accept something which looks like smoking...

I'm really out of this thread. The Robinator will be thrilled

BUT, for clarity and accuracy.... I said the population believes what the gov't and the media tells them. It takes a complicit media to make the propaganda effective. That's how real wars start, among other things. I'm out of the argument, but again don't put words in my mouth... gov't AND media.

 

[WillyZee]

It's all part of the Sin Tax Master Plan ... they want their missing Tax money back

They are Livid we have found this quit smoking miracle and they are going to Hijack it to satisfy their Greed

 

[caramel]

No, we are not taking this thread into Yet Another Direction.

i was only trying to help, you were previously complaining that it goes in circles....

 

[VNeil]

Wrong. I am not a mental midget (as you may assume) and I knew EXACTLY what you were talking about. You always seem to be so defensive and act like everyone is attacking what you are saying, which I am not. The only person around here who is "missing points" would be you because if you had correctly read the post above this one, you would see that I agreed with you as well as what others have pointed out. Here is what I put in the post so that you can see that I was in no way in disagreement with you or anyone else.....

"For those of you who view the term "harm reduction" as inappropriate or not accurate, I also understand your views as well."

What does that statement say to you? In case you can't decipher it, I will expound on it.......... It means that I was in agreement with you or anyone else who thinks that the term harm reduction is not appropriate and that I understand why you feel this way. In other words, I agree.... So, if I agree, why be so defensive about something that doesn't even exist? Just because I think that a person should err on the side of caution does in no way mean I don't understand and believe what you and the other posters have mentioned.

As for my comment about myself not caring about the term harm reduction was not intended to be a reflection for the entire public at large. It is for me only. In other words, someone can use the proper terminology around me or not use it and I could care less. But, as for the newbies or the public at large, then yes the proper terminology would be more significant. But, I was NOT talking about the general public. I was simply referring to when others talk to me about the subject. It's not a big deal too myself.

Seriously, Axiom, you DID NOT say you "agreed with me", you said you "understood my position". Those are two different things. You can understand my position and still disagree with it. And when you follow up with what I put in emphasis, specifically "It matters little to me if it is called "harm reduction" or some other term" then you certainly must be disagreeing with my premise that words really matter, because very obviously those words mean little to you one way or the other. Apparently. I was not missing points, I just took you at face value.

Really, I am out of here. No one has bothered to answer several very pointed questions I asked that cut to the core of the matter. I had 3 people trying to use debating tactics to obfuscate things rather than answer my pointed questions. I really am out of here. It was a very productive discussion for me, for the reasons I previously mentioned.

 

[AXIOM_1]

I just took you at face value.

I had 3 people trying to use debating tactics to obfuscate things rather than answer my pointed questions.

Yes, well, sometimes I may not state things exactly how I may be formatting them in my minds eye, but then again, there isn't a person I have ever met that is 100% perfect in how they state things. To make matters worse, online communication such as emails, postings on forums and such can often be a somewhat difficult form of communication. Since you cannot see the other person, then misunderstandings often creep in. People may mean one thing but it may be taken for something totally different.

But remember, You responded to a post that I had written to someone else....... I am simply replying to you. I am certainly not using debating tactics or trying to obfuscate anything. If others are trying to do that to you, then just look at it as being their problem or malfunction. Personally, I am here to LEARN from others, such as yourself or anyone else who is serious about vaping. Sometimes I may jump into a conversation and quote someone but I only do that when I think something is not factual or if it is faulty info but I am in no way intentionally setting out to obfuscate any conversations and I certainly hope you understand that fact. I suppose it may "appear" to people when I quote them or jump into a conversation that I am trying to pester them but that is certainly not what I am trying to do. I just want things to be as accurate as possible is all.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I'm really out of this thread. The Robinator will be thrilled

BUT, for clarity and accuracy.... I said the population believes what the gov't and the media tells them.

Yes! Three (or more) times yes! Who is a good guy - Assad or ISIS? Who is right - Russia or Ukraine? Is Greece going to stay to its promises? We can laugh, but we (simple citizens and aliens) do not worth enough to change our (means of simple citizens or aliens) opinions.

 

[Rossum]

Yes! Three (or more) times yes! Who is a good guy - Assad or ISIS? Who is right - Russia or Ukraine? Is Greece going to stay to its promises? We can laugh, but we (simple citizens and aliens) do not worth enough to change our (means of simple citizens or aliens) opinions.

Are you TRYING to get this thread kicked Outside?

 

[Alien Traveler]

Are you TRYING to get this thread kicked Outside?

Never thought about it. But does it matter? Especially when it comes to very interesting thing centered on human logic (or absence of it)?
Sorry if I am not coherent enough. Blame it on bourbon, not on me (OK?).

 

[zoiDman]

Are you TRYING to get this thread kicked Outside?

Now that would be Funny.

I wonder what the OUTSIDE crew would think about this Thread?

 

[jpargana]

Common sense tells me radio has absolutely nothing to do with vaping, other than to deflect the subject...

Commom sense tells me you missed the point completely.

In a nutshell: there are "unknown risks" about many other things we do, or use, in our daily lives, and we couldn't care less about those. Because there is a "huge monied interest in ensuring you don't think about that one" [sic]. And while the unknowns remain so, no-one really cares, assuming "it's safe until proven otherwise".

And yet, some of us are overly cautious about the unknowns of vaping. And guess what?
There IS a huge monied interest in ensuring you, and everyone sharing your "second hand vapour", DO worry about those unknowns. To the point, where the stance towards vaping has changed to "it *simply cannot* be safe until proven 100% safe."

 

[jpargana]

I am not sure what propaganda you are referring to..

Ah well

CDC Rejoices that Fewer Smokers are Trying to Quit
hzzp://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.de/2014/09/cdc-rejoices-that-fewer-smokers-are.html?spref=fb&m=1

Memo to public health grandees: vaping, vapers and you
hzzp://zzz.clivebates.com/?p=2391

EU Chief: Our Work Should Not be Transparent
hzzp://zzz.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/09/Invasion-of-EU-Technocrats

Respiratory Societies on Electronic Cigarettes: Farewell to Science, Reason, and the Hippocratic Oath
hzzp://zzz.bernd-mayer.com/respiratory-societies-electronic-cigarettes-farewell-science-reason-hippocratic-oath/#_ENREF_1

EU's Chief Scientific Advisor Says Eurocrats Twist Evidence, Distort Facts to Suit 'Political Imperative'
hzzp://zzz.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/30/Eurocrats-twist-scientific-evidence-to-suit-politcal-imperative

Tobacco Bonds May Be At Risk Due to the Rise of the Electronic
hzzp://zzz.myvaporsavior.com/electronic-cigarettes-sound-deathknell-tobacco-bonds/

Oh, the misrepresentations of PSU's vaping study: Joe Nocera
hzzp://zzz.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/01/oh_the_misrepresentations_of_p.html#incart_related_stories

The Black Lung Lie
The Black Lung Lie | Frank Davis

German Cancer Research Center Lies about Health Effects of Electronic Cigarettes to Scare Users and Unfairly Influence EU Directive
hzzp://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.de/2013/05/german-cancer-research-center-lies.html

More of the same from Stanton Glantz – a specious arguement about vapour and smoke equivalence
hzzp://zzz.ecita.org.uk/blog/index.php/more-of-the-same-from-stanton-glantz-a-specious-arguement-about-vapour-and-smoke-equivalence/

E-cigarettes new target of junk science
hzzp://zzz.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/06/17/e-cigarettes-new-target-junk-science/10689505/

Effects of e-cigarette use on exhaled nitric oxide
hzzp://zzz.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2014/167-no-ecigs

hzzp://zzz.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/campaign/scientists-dispel-ASH-junk-science.html#ash

Junk scientists wanted
hzzp://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/junk-scientists-wanted.html

E-Cigarettes Don’t Actually Help People Quit Smoking, According To 84 Different Studies
hzzp://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/05/13/ucsf-e-cigarette-study-shows-devices-questionable-benefits/#comments

How Do Senator Jay Rockefeller and his Commerce Committee Colleagues (Barbara Boxer and Richard Blumenthal) Sleep at Night?
hzzp://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.pt/2014/06/how-do-senator-jay-rockefeller-and-his.html

Safety of electronic cigarettes and the Loch Ness Monster
hzzp://zzz.bernd-mayer.com/safety-electronic-cigarettes-loch-ness-monster/

Pseudoscience in electronic cigarette policy
hzzp://zzz.bernd-mayer.com/pseudoscience-electronic-cigarette-policy/

Why the WHO is wrong about e-cigarettes
hzzp://zzz.west-info.eu/why-the-who-is-wrong-about-e-cigarettes/

FDA fails to account for e-cigarettes’ health benefits
hzzp://zzz.reviewjournal.com/opinion/fda-fails-account-e-cigarettes-health-benefits

Politicians Lie to the Public About the Scientific Evidence Regarding Whether E-Cigarettes are a Gateway to Smoking
hzzp://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.pt/2014/08/politicians-lie-to-public-about.HTML






(And this is not even an extensive list! )

 

[stevegmu]

Propaganda is meant to be for the masses, not sought out on forums or websites by those looking for it...

 

[stevegmu]

Commom sense tells me you missed the point completely.

In a nutshell: there are "unknown risks" about many other things we do, or use, in our daily lives, and we couldn't care less about those. Because there is a "huge monied interest in ensuring you don't think about that one" [sic]. And while the unknowns remain so, no-one really cares, assuming "it's safe until proven otherwise".

And yet, some of us are overly cautious about the unknowns of vaping. And guess what?
There IS a huge monied interest in ensuring you, and everyone sharing your "second hand vapour", DO worry about those unknowns. To the point, where the stance towards vaping has changed to "it *simply cannot* be safe until proven 100% safe."

Flavorings are a big unknown and what they can do to lungs over time. Dr. F. has expressed those concerns. Is he ANTZ?

 

[jpargana]

Flavorings are a big unknown and what they can do to lungs over time. Dr. F. has expressed those concerns. Is he ANTZ?

No, he is not. He has been doing a great job at doing PROPER science over e-cigarettes. Much different from the junk-science you will find in my previous posts, which then leads to the negative propaganda people were talking earlier.


Unlike tobacco, where you simply cannot get rid of the smoke, with vaping you can get rid of the offending flavour.


It means that those *specific* flavours may cause harm, not *vaping* in itself.


That's why I stated "OVERLY cautious" before, and that "the stance towards vaping has changed to it *simply cannot* be safe until proven 100% safe."

We do not seem to use that same reasoning to other products we use daily.

Want an example? Cellphone radiations. We are not yet 100% sure that those do *not* have a role on brain cancer. And yet, I see people who simply cannot put ther new iPhone down.
Point being, with other products, we simply accept a degree of risk, without even questioning.

 

[AXIOM_1]

We do not seem to use that same reasoning to other products we use daily.

Want an example? Cellphone radiations. We are not yet 100% sure that those do *not* have a role on brain cancer. And yet, I see people who simply cannot put ther new iPhone down.
Point being, with other products, we simply accept a degree of risk, without even questioning.

Good point and I agree.... We are constantly bombarded by chemicals that are known to be carcinogenic but without giving it a second thought. Household cleaning supplies, certain drugs, radiations and the list goes on. But, because we expel something that "looks like smoke" then oh my gosh, it must be as harmful as smoke in the minds of people with zero common sense.

 

[skoony]

whew,just caught up in this thread.
so,is vaping less harmful than smoking?(THR)
is vaping not known to be harmful?
i am going to sit on the fence with this one.
how about,'vaping is not known to be harmful
at this time'?
regards
mike

 

[thatrandy]

Sorry, I skim through the novels. I have a short attention span. Kudos to you for being able to do that.
The only way one can justify vaping is to show its better then smoking. It's still harmful, and If my child smokes I would rather him vape, but if he never smoked I wouldn't want him to vape. That about sums up every point I can possibly make on here.

Thanks

I dont like this guy.... why are you on here if you hate vaping so much? You seem to demonize it a whole lot for being a part of the community.... You bring a negative vibe to the whole thing too....

 

[TheRac25]

whew,just caught up in this thread.
so,is vaping less harmful than smoking?(THR)
is vaping not known to be harmful?
i am going to sit on the fence with this one.
how about,'vaping is not known to be harmful
at this time'?
regards
mike

everything is harmful, question is how much and in what time period will it take to kill you

 

[MagicJosh]

I dont like this guy.... why are you on here if you hate vaping so much? You seem to demonize it a whole lot for being a part of the community.... You bring a negative vibe to the whole thing too....

HAHA!!! Well then. We have a hater!

Anyways! If you read my posts I say: I am just being honest and saying what I see. I vape and I vape everyday. I have an opinion that doesn't match your opinion. Get over it. Nicotine is addictive. Addiction to some is more of a hobby I disagree. Nicotine changes the chemistry in the mind and body. Why you gotta be all mad and stuff? I also said people who are addicts are in denial. That's true.... Lets face the facts. Even If the FDA finds bad and harmful things about vaping the majority of yall will not believe it.

 

[DC2]

I wonder how it feels to regurgitate the propaganda on cue...