SOBER VAPERS - Vaping Sober - ROLLCALL!

Status
Not open for further replies.

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,314
1
83,833
So-Cal
...

Side note, some of those 12 steps are damn good as is, with no substances or god behind it. Make amends, practice humility, be good to people.

...

Absolutely.

Steps 4 ~ 12 Deal with Being a More Complete Person. One who Can Many Times deal with Life better than if they did Not practice the Principles of the 12 Steps.

If a Person can Stop Drinking and Become Sober, Fantastic. But it is Steps 4 ~ 12 that KEEP me Sober. And keeps me from Going Back.
 

Zak Rabbit

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2013
1,530
1,805
Orange, California, United States
Even if it is "a front for religion", it helps to keep some of those maniacs sober. And, best part, I don't get it shoved down my throat, at least around here they leave you alone.
They have enough problems.

Side note, some of those 12 steps are damn good as is, even without pertaining to substances or religion. Make amends, practice humility, be good to people.

Speaking of 12 steps, anybody see that Passages Malibu commercial, with this Pax Prentis guy...he says "I was an addict for xx years, now I'm not"!

It doesn't work like that bro...

And there may or may not be others who continue to see him in meetings...
 

dragginfly

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Nov 3, 2010
140
6,055
Missouri, USA
Speaking of 12 steps, anybody see that Passages Malibu commercial, with this Pax Prentis guy...he says "I was an addict for xx years, now I'm not"!

The commercial always pops out at me for some reason. :shock:

A cure? Really? Oh... just buy this book. Gotcha.

After your post I quickly looked for their website. I know nothing other
than the claims they make, but the premise sounds good to me.

Non-12 Step Addiction Treatment Philosophy

Unlike other rehab centers, we don’t believe that addiction is a disease. Our research shows that people become dependent on drugs and alcohol because of one of these four causes:

1. A chemical imbalance
2. Events of the past you have not reconciled
3. Current conditions you can’t cope with
4. Things you believe that aren’t true

Our goal is to find out what’s driving you to use drugs or alcohol. Once we locate the cause of your addiction, we will begin the work to heal it. Our entire program revolves around accomplishing this goal using an advanced one-on-one approach to therapy.

Their book might be worth a read after all.

Anyone read their "Cure" book?


ETA Link: http://www.passagesmalibu.com/
 
Last edited:

TheSystemHasFailed

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 19, 2013
1,572
1,478
40
Valhalla

Zak Rabbit

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2013
1,530
1,805
Orange, California, United States

Big Juicy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 22, 2013
2,919
7,075
Placentia, CA
Yes this is a major reason for relapse and something most people do not consider. When your whole life has been an escape, life can hit you pretty hard when you turn around and face what you've done over the past 12 years. You start to experience real emotions again which is extremely difficult. All the hangups that lead to your using in the first place do not go away and those all come back for you to deal with. You have to find a job, go to school, take care of your kids... All those stressful things that people do every day can be some of the hardest things for a person in recovery to deal with. It's very difficult at first.

At first you have one job: "Don't do dope" That's hard enough but it gets easier. Next thing you know... BAM!! LIFE is back. WHOA

I will take this a step further re: going back out at this stage, and step further specific to AA.

In my experience, the rubber hits the road HARD for the first time around this time at Steps 4 and 5. Well over 90% of the people who go back out have not completed a 4th or 5th step.
 

Big Juicy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 22, 2013
2,919
7,075
Placentia, CA
That is incorrect, it's mentioned as "higher power" or "God, as we understood him" from the first publishing. It is a spiritual based program, not faith based. Read the book if you're able to conquer your "contempt prior to investigation."
I stayed away from aa for ten years believing it was a requirement to become Christian. Nothing could be father from the truth.

Sent via the guys that made Star Trek low tech.

It is not a requirement and though it sprung out of the Oxford Group it is not a Christian or religious organization. Yes, I know sober AA's who are atheists and other who are agnostics. That said, the entire point of the 12 steps...and the Big Book is clear on this...is to have a "spiritual awakening," carry the message, and practice these principles in all our affairs.
 
Last edited:

Big Juicy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 22, 2013
2,919
7,075
Placentia, CA
Does AA Really Work?

I can’t tell you How Many People have Asked Me this Question. You may be somewhat Shocked by this, but No, AA Doesn’t work for “Most” People.

So why is this? Because as wacdenney pointed out (who BTW I am Gaining a New Found Respect for), if a Person has a Problem with their Drinking but does Not Want to Quit, Nothing is Going to Work. Nothing.

No $30,000 Rehab Center. No “Get Well Cards” from a Judge. No amount of Nagging from a Spouse. Or Encouragement from a Friend, Co-Worker or Boss. Nothing.

People come to AA for Many Different Reasons. Some come to AA to Cut Down on their Drinking but Not to Quit. Some will come to show Others that they are Doing Something about a Problem and to get People Off their Back. Other because they were Convicted of a DUI or similar Alcohol Related Offense and they Have To. Some go because they have heard that Other People have had Success with AA.

For these People, very Very Few have any Long Term Success in Quitting Drinking. Because Most of these People do Not Really Want to Quit Drinking. (I don’t want to put numbers on these people, but if someone told me these were the 5-Percent-ers, it Wouldn't Surprise me.)

Drinking is a Exactly Like Smoking. If you Don’t Want to Quit Smoking, you’re Not Going to. You have to Want it. Want it on the Deepest Level. You have to Want to Quit 100%, from the bottom of your Heart and are Willing to go to Any Lengths to Achieve It Because if you Don’t, Guess what Sunshine, it Aint Gonna Work.

But is that AA’s fault? A Person doesn’t Deep Down Inside Want to Quit, they go to AA and they Don’t Quit, and so they Blame AA? Is AA Really to Blame? Is AA's Failure to Make a Person Quit who Doesn't want to Justification to make a Satirical Satire youtube video?

So who does it Work For?

Here is a Excerpt from Chap. 5 “How it Works” from the “Big Book” of Alcoholics Anonymous. It is one of the things that is Read at the beginning of Every Sanctioned AA Meeting for about the last 70 Years.

http://www.aa.org/pdf/products/p-10_howitworks.pdf

AA works for an Individual who Wants to Quit Drinking more than Anything Else. And who is Willing to Actively Pursue Sobriety on a Daily Bases. Notice that this is a TWO Part Condition. It Isn’t Enough to just Want to Quit Drinking for Most People who go to AA. If it was, they would have Done It Already! And it doesn’t Work if a Person does not Work the Program of AA.

I have seen Hundreds of People who have Lost EVERYTHING and Have Tried EVERYTHING with No Success achieve Sobriety. People who were Hopeless and Emotionally Bankrupt. People I wouldn’t bet a Used Carto on being able to Succeed. But they Wanted to Quit. And were able to be Completely Honest with themselves and Actively Work the Steps of AA and to Practice AA Principles Daily in All their Affairs. And they Did Succeed.

---

I was Going to Fire Off a Scathing OUTSIDE reply when you posted that Video. Because I thought it was Complete Garbage.

But instead, I hope this gives you some Perspective of AA in General thru my Opinion. The Perspective from an Active AA Member who has seen people get their Lives Back On Track.

And Not the Perspective of some Vegas Comedian who has an Axe to Grind.


---

BTW – Here is a Link to the Entire AA Big Book.

Big Book On Line - Table of Contents

If you Only Choose to Read one thing including Chap. 4, Please read the Paragraph on the Bottom of Page 63 an the Top of Page 64 in Chap. 5

I can only speak from my personal experience. I have been a sober and active member of AA for over 15 years. I have been to literally thousands of meeting in numerous states. And in all those meetings over all those years in all those places there are two things I have NEVER seen:

1) Somebody share that they "went back out," that is was wonderfully awesome and totally working, and F you all...I...am out...

2) Somebody who has completed all 12 steps to the best of his/her ability EXACTLY as outlined in the book, with a sponsor, who hasn't has a spiritual awakening or has gone out.

Believe me, I am looking for another solution besides booze/drugs or the steps and I have tried a LOT of them, so I am waiting for one of those 2 things to happen. So far no dice. My experience is that the 12 steps work 100% of the time for 100% of the people that work all 12 thoroughly, period.
 
Last edited:

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,314
1
83,833
So-Cal
I can only speak from my personal experience. I have been a sober and active member of AA for over 15 years. I have been to literally thousands of meeting in numerous states. And in all those meetings over all those years in all those places there are two things I have NEVER seen:

1) Somebody share that they "went back out," that is was wonderfully awesome and totally working, and F you all...I...am out...

2) Somebody who has completed all 12 steps to the best of his/her ability EXACTLY as outlined in the book, with a sponsor, who hasn't has a spiritual awakening or has gone out.

...

I hear you Brother.
 
Last edited:

BardicDruid

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 25, 2009
1,629
770
62
Central Texas
I have. (to support others. I'm lucky enough to not have had to deal with alcohol addiction).
So you have no idea what it's like to be cursed with addiction, you see a little about AA and make a very uninformed conclusion, and refuse to listen to anyone who knows more about it than you do. Like I said, you have no idea what you're talking about but insist on telling others about it, that is just plain lying.
 

Big Juicy

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 22, 2013
2,919
7,075
Placentia, CA
The belief or even the seeking of support/guidance is absolutely NOT religion. AA actually was designed specifically to NOT be a religion.

There are two essential components by definition to be a religion or religious: the service and the worship of God. You could debate whether surrender and asking a Higher Power for help is service to that higher power. AA certainly advocates service to the still suffering alcoholic. Service TO God? Debatable. They absolutely in no way whatsoever advocate worship of any kind,

By definition it is not a religion or religious. It is however a 12 step program of which the goal/end result is a spiritual awakening.
 

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,314
1
83,833
So-Cal
Yeah. I'm on a vaper's forum but I have no addiction. That makes a lot of sense.

Dance around it all you want, AA is a religious based organization.

OK Pav

If it will help get this Thread Back On Track, you are more than Entitled to believe that AA is a Religious Program. Even in light of the Fact that Numerous Active AA Members, and some Non-AA Members, have tried to point out that it Isn't.

BTW - How well would you Receive me if I started to tell you About the Condition of Detroit? Seeing that I have Only been there Once. And that was 10 Years ago.
 

Surf Monkey

Cartel Boss
ECF Veteran
May 28, 2009
3,958
104,300
Sesame Street
Yeah. I'm on a vaper's forum but I have no addiction. That makes a lot of sense.

Dance around it all you want, AA is a religious based organization.

Obviously. Just about everyone you encounter who's in the program will either talk about their faith or lead an apology for the religion angle.
 

Surf Monkey

Cartel Boss
ECF Veteran
May 28, 2009
3,958
104,300
Sesame Street
OK Pav

If it will help get this Thread Back On Track, you are more than Entitled to believe that AA is a Religious Program. Even in light of the Fact that Numerous Active AA Members, and some Non-AA Members, have tried to point out that it Isn't.

BTW - How well would you Receive me if I started to tell you About the Condition of Detroit? Seeing that I have Only been there Once. And that was 10 Years ago.

This is weak bait. Part one is about getting the thread back on track. Part two is a direct challenge to keep it derailed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread