Surely you must have at least some anecdotal evidence to make such a claim.
I don't need anecdotal evidence, when the factual evidence supports what I'm saying.
Surely you must have at least some anecdotal evidence to make such a claim.
I don't need anecdotal evidence, when the factual evidence supports what I'm saying.
You really have no idea what your talking about, the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" was written in 1939, the only thing that has changed since then is the personal stories in the back. You have proven that you are seriously ignorant but insist on telling others about it, that is just plain lying.It used to. They changed it from "God" to "higher power".
You really have no idea what your talking about, the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" was written in 1939, the only thing that has changed since then is the personal stories in the back. You have proven that you are seriously ignorant but insist on telling others about it, that is just plain lying.
After being hidden away for nearly 70 years and then auctioned twice, the original manuscript by AA co-founder Bill Wilson is about to become public for the first time next week, complete with edits by Wilson-picked commenters that reveal a profound debate in 1939 about how overtly to talk about God.
The group's decision to use "higher power" and "God of your understanding" instead of "God" or "Jesus Christ" and to adopt a more inclusive tone was enormously important in making the deeply spiritual text accessible to the non-religious and non-Christian, AA historians and treatment experts say.
The steps are:
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.[1]
One of aa's traditions is that "we ought not be organised." There will be no statistics kept by aa as to "success rates."
OK I'm not personally sure i buy that whole its a higher power vs god vs spirtitual.....but...but does it really help? Least according to the one source I pull above. 5% success rate with it...........(Maybe estimate as they refuse to share real records 5% is what they claim) VS.....a 5% without at all.
Sounds like(not to turn it into an cig thing) a cold turkey vs a gum rates......... both of which are piss poor and shouldnt be considered a success by any means.
That is an exceptionally awesome "tradition" from AA's standpoint. Higher power forbid they should actually prove their effectiveness.
The courts here only mandate that you get into a treatment program. They do not advocate for one program over another. One county south they actually will not accept AA as a viable treatment program. But I'm sure laws are wildly different across the nation.
...
How anyone can say that's not religious is beyond me. It's instructing you that you're powerless (we're not) and to turn your life over to God.
...
That and I think if you Attended a Few Meetings you would Understand how any AA Meeting Works.
I have. (to support others. I'm lucky enough to not have had to deal with alcohol addiction).
I don't need anecdotal evidence, when the factual evidence supports what I'm saying.
I stand by my initial assessment. It's a front for religion.
<snip>
How anyone can say that's not religious is beyond me.
Here is an article in Scientific American
Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work?
For some heavy drinkers, the answer is a tentative yes
Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work?: Scientific American
"In 2006 psychologist Rudolf H. Moos of the Department of Veterans Affairs and Stanford University and Bernice S. Moos published results from a 16-year study of problem drinkers who had tried to quit on their own or who had sought help from AA, professional therapists or, in some cases, both. Of those who attended at least 27 weeks of AA meetings during the first year, 67 percent were abstinent at the 16-year follow-up, compared with 34 percent of those who did not participate in AA. Of the subjects who got therapy for the same time period, 56 percent were abstinent versus 39 percent of those who did not see a therapist—an indication that seeing a professional is also beneficial."
Really?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/21/AR2010092106531.html
I stand by my initial assessment. It's a front for religion. The problems with that are that secular institutions are sentencing people convicted of DUIs to attend AA, even though doing that infringes on their freedom of religion (this happened to a close friend of mine who is an atheist and was offended at having to go to AA for this reason. He kicked the booze on his own and is doing well).
And here are the 12 steps right from the AA website.
http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-121_en.pdf
How anyone can say that's not religious is beyond me. It's instructing you that you're powerless (we're not) and to turn your life over to God.
If someone who is religious (or not) wants to willingly join and finds it works for them, then great. But we should not bow to theocratic tendencies by having our courts sentence people to have to attend. And we should also remember that many people tend to replace one addiction with another. GW Bush swapping alcohol (drugs) for religion is a good example of this imo.
I Do Not Agree with your Assessment of AA being a Front for Religion.
But I do Applaud a person for Support Another in Getting Help with Something they Truly Desire to Change.