I just want to bring up some inconsistencies that I have found in this thread for the sake of those who want to reduce the amount of potentially harmful ingredients in their juice. This thread appears to be an attempt to do this mostly via a list of suppliers who have stated that they don't use diacetyl.
The first obvious problem with this approach has already been mentioned much earlier in this thread. It is all hearsay and the information (and product) is just passed down the line from manufacturer to vendor to you, possibly passing through many other hands somewhere along the chain. You are left to accept at face value the word of the person you are dealing with as they have had to do and so on up the line. I wish I could say that every business I have dealt with is trustworthy, but where money is involved many times honor is pushed out the door. As was previously stated: "SHOW ME THE TEST RESULTS."
Second, at least some of the alternatives to butter/cream flavors exhibit the same or similar deleterious effects as Diacetyl. This includes the most common substitute, 2,3-Pentanedione (Acetyl Propionyl), many (perhaps all) natural butter/cream flavors (which contain Diacetyl naturally), Acetoin which can catalyze into Diacetyl, and possibly others.
On top of this, a chemist on this site has mentioned that cinnamon flavor is a severe irritant and has its' own list of health problems associated with it. There are other potential problem flavors, but these seem to be the most glaring.
Therefore, asking if Diacetyl is included in a juice can lead to confusing conclusions that a juice is safe. To demonstrate this I have included two emails written by vendors that were posted to this thread by those who queried them.
For the subject of Diacetyl and the search for flavors not containing them, I will post the following response I received from Capella Flavor Drops after enquiring of their use of it.
[QUOTE}
From: Tom Cangley
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: ship to Canada ?
Hi Greg,
I understand.
Let me clarify a few things for you and your community.
While Diacetyl is a natural occurring compound found in “Butter” and products containing butter. Our flavors are all GRAS flavorings which do not contain any dairy, butter, creams, etc. And on another note we do NOT add any Diacetyl to our flavors ( there is no point in us doing that ).
All of our flavors are “Food Grade Flavorings” and are intended to flavor foods and beverages, that’s what we make our flavors for. I don’t believe there is any company that should be saying their flavors are for “e-liquids, etc” since there is just not enough data to substantiate that their flavors would be safe for such a use.
Let me know if you have any other questions and I will be more than happy to answer any questions “anyone” has regarding flavors and the chemistry of.
Thanks again and have a great holiday!
-tom
OK, that statement in bold might lead one to believe that these products are safe to vape. However, a reseller who does business here on ECF decided to take the initiative and independently tested a very popular flavor of theirs before offering it for sale. The results of the test?
"Diacetyl, 2,3-Pentanedione, and Acetoin are all present in the Vanilla Custard sample that you sent. Just a very small amount of diacetyl, however." Notice the second chemical found? Yes, that is one of the most common substitutes for Diacetyl which might be just as dangerous. Acetoin can catalyze into Diacetyl and that is possibly why Diacetyl was present.
Again, this demonstrates the importance of testing over taking someone's word for it. The actual statement in bold made by the vendor might be the absolute truth and yet, even if true, it doesn't mean the products are safe to vape - it just appears to suggest that they are.
I'm not calling into question the integrity of this person. The truth is I don't know him, nor have I done business with him, and I certainly don't claim to know his intentions behind his written statement. I'm just pointing out that it is possible to state facts in such a way as to lead the reader to a conclusion that isn't actually stated as fact. Whether this was the intention of the writer (only he knows) is not as important (to me) as showing that the way things are phrased can lead one to a false conclusion about the possible safety of a product.
Looks like want2vape can be added to the diacetyl-free list.
I emailed them to ask if their products contain diacetyl or vanillin...Here's the response:
From: want2vape Gmail <want2vape@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 4, 2011 8:01 am
Subject: Re: Contact want2vape
Greetings,
Thank you for your inquiry, NO!
We too feel that these are un-natural and un-safe.
In fact we subscribe to the EU (European Union) guidelines for food additives and our (other than extracted) flavoring are manufactured in France which has the highest standards in Europe.
And yet another reason our products are NOT made from LorAnns, FlavourArt or other “Consumer” flavoring companies offerings.
While it may cost more, it was the number one reason we started all this.
Thank you again, hope to see you soon,
Donley
Again, the absence of Diacetyl does not mean a juice is safe. Is Pentanedione or Acetoin added? Following EU guidelines does not even insure that Diacetyl is omitted, so I'm not sure why this was mentioned (aside from making it sound safe). I don't know if France has the highest standards in Europe, but I wouldn't take a vendors word for it.
Calling out other flavoring suppliers because they are NOT French or EU does not inspire confidence in me about this vendor. I know those other companies make some perfectly safe products even if not all of them can be confirmed as safe. There is no reason to avoid these companies if you avoid any flavors that may be problematic.
I am not saying this vendor's eliquids are not safe. The fact is, from this email it is impossible for me to know.
