Still smoking support and chat thread

[aikanae1]

This is not even close to the time to wait simply because of spelling errors.

Nope. Not waiting here either. I signed the AU one, the UK one and several for the US.
And I'll keep signing.

 

[aikanae1]

Huh...says I already signed, but I don't remember signing...

You may need to set a new password. That's what it's asking me to do. Just say you forgot it and it will email you instructions.

 

[aikanae1]

Done already . While the regs don't look "bad" per se, it's only getting their foot in the door for more to follow. And while it's all well and good that vets will be able to get around it if need be, it dooms those who could potentially be saved.

They are bad. They eliminate all the devices we use now since deeming still requires FDA approval for anything not in existence in 2007 (cigalikes). Getting approval will take millions so all small and medium sized business are out. Another point was brought up that the FDA isn't designed to handle a whole bunch of little business' anyway. That's why they haven't moved on over 3,000 applications since 2009 (they don't count applications that were denied). The FDA is only equipped / staffed to deal with a handful of large corporations - just like pharmaceuticals and so that's the model they are trying to implement. So far, no one is expecting chinese manufacturers to apply either.

What could be worse?

According to the new Surgeon General's report, "Although the prevalence of smoking has declined significantly over the past half-century, the risks for smoking-related disease and mortality have not. In fact, today's cigarette smokers - both men and women - have a much higher risk for lung cancer and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) than smokers in 1964, despite smoking fewer cigarettes."

Oh yea, they could add chemicals to eliquid to make it more addicting and deadly like they have with cigarettes UNDER FDA OVERSIGHT.

* Ingredient listing is not required for NRT products or cigarettes. Only eliquids.

Gimme the black market. It's safer than the FDA + BT/BP anyday.

 

[aikanae1]

Great advice! I am putting most of it away from me, but I will have to spend some of it. didn't spend much today, I was tired as soon as I got the money! LOL Oh well there is always tomorrow!

I need some of your good luck. It's been a couple of weeks without a win and I guess one of the deeming provisions that will go into effect is no more "freebies" (no one is sure if that includes b&m sampling too). UGH.

Suggestion: buy nic.

 

[Uncle]

Just as an FYI:

Unless either of "You" disapprove, given how well "You" said what "You" did, I am stealing your responses to post elsewhere in ECF, especially since I am to annoyed and upset to type anything as well or appropriate at the moment given that no matter where I posted the notice the same post was also posted . . .

One very, well two, very major problems with this post.

First: "wait"... No. The FDA is not waiting, they are moving forward. And yes this is poorly worded and hastily put together but if something is not said it could he said too late and never reach those who have any actual influence in matters like this. True the regulations are only "proposed" but at one time, Obama-care was only proposed.

Second, "don't sign - just wait"... no, honestly I am already stocking up and planning an exit strategy. This is not even close to the time to wait simply because of spelling errors.

I would highly suggest that anyone who is able create a more sensibly worded petition and that we all sign both but it has always been rash and determined action that has shown the determination that has created this country and what once made it great.

Waiting for CASAA does not make your voice heard immediately.

I am a member of CASAA and value them greatly but, even if it is very grassroots and even if it fails, at least it is doing something. I will simply NOT be told what I can or cannot do to save my own life by a government I neither chose nor approve of.

/rant

While I agree it's not very well written I don't see the big deal in signing it as long as you follow casaa and add your name to the "real" petition when it's available.
You may also want to follow this site by Bill Godshall
FDA Proposal For Deeming Regulation

 

[loxmythe]

Just as an FYI:

Unless either of "You" disapprove, given how well "You" said what "You" did, I am stealing your responses to post elsewhere in ECF, especially since I am to annoyed and upset to type anything as well or appropriate at the moment given that no matter where I posted the notice the same post was also posted . . .

Knock yourself out

Seems silly to me to argue semantics among ourselves at this point.

 

[Uncle]

JUST AS AN FYI:


Funny thing - since I signed the petition - I just got a response from "By Mitch Zeller, the Director of the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Tobacco Products." AND - While it may have just been a generic letter sent to everyone who signed the petition, it shows that it was seen and also provided a link to be "heard" . . .

"The opportunity to comment on FDA's proposed rule is now open and comments are due on July 9, 2014. We encourage you to do so, and to provide any data and information you may have to support your comments."​

AND - In the email letter I got it also provided the following:

Related links:

See the proposed rule
Submit a comment on the proposed rule
Tell us what you think about this response and We the People.​

So - The question now really becomes are "We" being heard even if the petition is poorly written ? ? ? Who knows, but the petition is being seen and getting some attention . . .

 

[etherealink]

Just as an FYI:

Unless either of "You" disapprove, given how well "You" said what "You" did, I am stealing your responses to post elsewhere in ECF, especially since I am to annoyed and upset to type anything as well or appropriate at the moment given that no matter where I posted the notice the same post was also posted . . .

I'm thrilled with it Uncle. Share away!

 

[etherealink]

Knock yourself out

Seems silly to me to argue semantics among ourselves at this point.

I agree totally Lox. While we argue semantics the FDA is doing whatever they want and getting away with it.

They "realize there will be complaints and backlash from manufacturers" but since they are a federal group they think they are above that and simply make insanely long avenues for the businesses to voice complaints or concerns.

No just starting with banning advertising on TV and in print and making them illegal for sale to minors, no, just make them illegal or impossible to get until we have a few decades or research on them... perfect government working process.

Just think how well it worked for every country driven off their land because they didn't act till it was too late.

 

[etherealink]

To quote the exact petition (pardon the font changes, direct copy and paste on purpose):

WE PETITION THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO:

Veto the FDA Restrictions on E-Cigarettes

The FDA has classified E-Cigarettes as "Tobacco Products" and will now severely restrict their use. These regulations are not like those of tobacco, but instead all manufactures will be required to complete a lengthy and expensive application just for putting new products on the market. This includes Mechanical Mods, Variable Voltage, tanks, drippers,etc. Any new "Model" after 2015 will be required to complete this application. The FDA has over stepped their boundaries. E-Cigarettes CAN NOT be classified as a "Tobacco Product" as there is no tobacco in it. They fret about the nicotine, but there is nicotine in many plants including tomatoes. They fret about the flavors, yet allow Smirnoff Vodka to advertise candy and fruit flavors. DoNot, allow the FDA to take control of a life saving prod

Created:.Apr 24, 2014

Ms. P to what false statements do you refer?QUOTE]

False, misleading, and/or unsubstantiated. The very first sentence is FALSE.

• The FDA has NOT classified e-cigs as tobacco products. They have PROPOSED to do so.
• The FDA will not (now) severely restrict their use. They have PROPOSED to do so.
• After 2015 - no. Dating back to 2007 and going forward.
• A lifesaving product - maybe. "We" think so. We hope so. But we don't have the scientific data to back up that claim.

I doubt the young man who authored the petition read and completely understood every word in the proposal. If he did read the entire proposal, he obviously did not understand it all. Or perhaps he chose to only see what he wanted or expected to see and ran with that. Whatever the case, the petition is badly worded, contains inflammatory language, and contains false, misleading, and/or unsubstantiated statements and claims.

Ms.P

A simple question, if unchallenged, what is the difference between "proposed" and "made into law" but time?

Oh, and using a barb at someone's intelligence, schooling (via English comprehension and writing skills) and their thought process as a determining factor on whether or not to act against very real and looming legislation that will make something we value very difficult to get is in poor taste.

But then, you wanted to focus on semantics.

 

[aikanae1]

Well I guess "they" are advising people to wait to formulate an informed official response to the FDA. It seems there's a lot of questions to their draft proposal and very little written about eliquids. Almost nothing about unflavored nic. CASSA and folks are combing through it now, so they don't have answers yet. Conely has gone on record saying it's bad news and crap.

I'm not happy that we couldn't even open a new petition. I think we are the only population the Whitehouse refuses to hear. However, before I knew that I got the same form letter and responded:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...nse-whitehouse-gov-petition.html#post12958608

 

[darksparkle13]

I need some of your good luck. It's been a couple of weeks without a win and I guess one of the deeming provisions that will go into effect is no more "freebies" (no one is sure if that includes b&m sampling too). UGH.

Suggestion: buy nic.

Aik I am with you I need some luck my way for sure! I got some juices but sadly did not like them

 

[darksparkle13]

IMHO when the FDA wants to step in to "regulate" what land of the free Americans want to do in their personal homes, this is scary! It is frustrating with the media outlet that reports only on the bad things to sell media! Now we have a voice and it should be heard! If you say nothing at all then i feel you dont have a leg to stand on! If you dont voted dont complain about who is your state rep or the leader of the free nation!
Jumping off my podium!
I still love you all

Onto a different subject I just got some crem brûlée juice and OMB it is dreamy!
Now to mix with some fruit flavors and see what I can get! Yummy!

 

[Uncle]

JUST AS AN FYI:


Well - It seems most of the post I have left about the petition are now being bombarded with request to Wait and Not Sign the petition or to have them Deleted because CASSA say so . . . WHAT ? ? ?

AND - While - Yes - It seems that the letter I got in response was to the earlier petition is being re-sent now . . . Either way the links are still valid and hopefully some people will still it go to them to "Voice" their opinions/views . . . Just A Thought . . .

"Me" - I did do what I thought appropriate to do . . .

AND - RIGHT NOW - I'm staying out of all the in-fighting and continued disagreements throughout ECF about whether or not to sign any petition and to not say anything else until CASSA says so . . .

CASSA DOES NOT SPEAK FOR "ME" . . .

I DON'T Care Anymore What People or CASSA does . . . I'm DONE ! ! !

 

[beebopnjazz]

From what I had read yesterday, Cassa wanted people to wait to leave their comments at the FDA site on the proposed regulations until the 241 page proposal could be read by those more familiar, so that we don't sound like uneducated baboons when leaving our comments; unlike many of those who made the complaints the past few years. I read them; some of them were "omg, I hope no one actually believed such obvious nonsense" complaints. Some seem "planted", if ya know what I mean.

 

[ShariR]

Aik I am with you I need some luck my way for sure! I got some juices but sadly did not like them

I am sorry you did not like the juices you got fresh out of the mail. That is not an uncommon thing if the juice is made when you order. Uncap them and let them air out for an hour or so. Recap and shake. Shake them a couple times a day and retaste every few days to a week. They probably need to steep for the flavors to blend together. Tobaccos can be notorious for needing up to several weeks to steep.

At some point, hopefully sooner than later, you will find the time when they taste good for your tastebuds. Sometimes it never happens with certain flavors. Usually I find many get better with the shaking and some time. Store in a dark, cool place.

 

[ShariR]

I do not think most people are going to try to decifer the FDA Deeming document. Most will not even attempt to read it. I believe the majority of vapers that are interested enough to post a comment will have the intelligence to just state their view of why vaping is working for them and how regulating it will hurt them. They will also post their success stories on how they were able to stop using tobacco and how much better they feel with the blessings of their doctors and clear chest xrays, less asthma attacks, clearer lungs.

That is what is going to help our cause the most. The real stories of regular people and how their doctors are telling them they are healthier.

CASAA will probably argue over the wording of their petition/response until the last minute. The Govt needs to hear voices NOW and from people like you and me.

Just my take on this whole thing.

 

[Ms.P]

Ms.P

A simple question, if unchallenged, what is the difference between "proposed" and "made into law" but time?

That depends. If you believe we have no chance to "win," then I suppose there's no difference - to you, and to anyone who feels as you do. All the time, money, and effort we spend will be for naught. The FDA will have its way. If that's the case, why would you exert any effort at all? And why would you care what others do or try to do?

If you believe we do have a chance to win, then the difference is huge. It ain't a done deal. But we have to follow the procedures set out for us. It's the way the game is played.

 

[Ms.P]

JUST AS AN FYI:

Well - It seems most of the post I have left about the petition are now being bombarded with request to Wait and Not Sign the petition or to have them Deleted because CASSA say so . . . WHAT ? ? ?

AND - While - Yes - It seems that the letter I got in response was to the earlier petition is being re-sent now . . . Either way the links are still valid and hopefully some people will still it go to them to "Voice" their opinions/views . . . Just A Thought . . .

"Me" - I did do what I thought appropriate to do . . .

AND - RIGHT NOW - I'm staying out of all the in-fighting and continued disagreements throughout ECF about whether or not to sign any petition and to not say anything else until CASSA says so . . .

CASSA DOES NOT SPEAK FOR "ME" . . .

I DON'T Care Anymore What People or CASSA does . . . I'm DONE ! ! !

Uncle, did someone delete your posts or ask you to delete them? Aside from the fact I disagreed with them, I don't see any reason why you would be asked to delete them. None of your posts were abusive or profane; none violated any of ECF's rules that I'm aware of. You said, "Please sign this petition." I said, "Please don't." We didn't get into a pissing contest. We expressed our views. That's what a forum is for.

One of my (many) issues with the petition is that it's untimely. What does the petition purport to accomplish? Signing a petition isn't what's called for at this stage in the process. Our first step is to comment on the proposed actions. THAT is our chance to have our voices heard. But without reading and thoroughly understanding what is contained in the FDA's proposal, how can we possibly make informed and relevant comments? I can read it, but I can't understand all of it. Legalese, bureaucracy, nuance - call it what you will. The average person can't understand it all. TEAMS of lawyers, accountants, physicians, scientists, etc., are poring over the proposal to figure out what it says and what it all means. I hope they can explain it to us in terms we can understand. If we can't do it ourselves, we have to trust someone to help us out. I hope CASAA is that "someone." I'm betting my rights they are.

 

[FireDragon1138]

I only had 3 cigarettes today... I got a new e-cig, an Aquavapor Hybris. It comes with a bottom coil clearomizer, eVod style. I'm scared the damn thing will leak, but it does seem to be a good vape. Florida weather is hot and I could see this thing leaking easily when the plastic or metal expands. Anyways, I plan to keep the Hybris mostly at home.

I think cartomizers are in my future when out and about, one reason maybe I still like the KR808's... I cannot afford to mess with leaking, knowing me it would be a recipe for nicotine OD.