TC Builds and Troubleshooting

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BlueridgeDog

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The "Official DNA 40" thread has died a slow agonizing death largely centered around debate on the quality of one vendor's product.

This thread is not for the discussion of any particular chip, but for those wanting to build temperature controlled setups using nickel and/or titanium and a chip that can control temperature of the coil.

Based on research and collective experimentation to date, the process of temperature control can be impacted by several factors that a mod builder or a person using a RDA or RTA will encounter. The first is that changes in resistance, even very small changes, can influence the performance of the TC chip. For example, if your build has a weak connection or cold solder join that can present potentially variable resistance, the TC chip will perform poorly. Additionally if your RDA or RTA has high static resistance or the potential for variable resistance, you will encounter issues.

Coil builds themselves can cause issues, micro coils that touch can change resistance over time and throw off the quality of the TC chip output. coils that are close enough to the build deck so that juice will create a variable resistance connectivity path will also throw off the TC chip, as will coils that are not attached well to the posts.

Finally, the TC chip has to make some assumptions about the environment, i.e. is the atty at the same starting temperature as the mod? Consider the following: A mod that has been in your pocket and is at 85F and an atty that has been on the shelf in your 65F room will work poorly as the TC chip will assume that the atty is at 85F and base its wattage output to get your desired temperature off the assumption that the starting temp of the atty was substantially warmer than it was. To fight this, most chips attempt some sort of "refinement" over time, when if left alone, they recalculate the base resistance of the coil based on the assumption that if it has not been used for some time, the coil is likely to be the same temperature of the mod.

I hope this thread can be a source of discussion in controlling these variables, in understanding how they interact and in helping make these chips work really well in our mods.
 

retird

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Kayfun 4 (prior to updated version) builds can have resistance swings as juice control is used... just an informative video...



Solid connections are very important at every point within the device and topper. This includes the connection of the center pins of the 510 connectors both on the device and the topper. A dirty connection at this area can also effect resistance. Periodic cleaning of the center pins may be a good thing...
 
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jazzvaper

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Kayfun 4 (prior to updated version) builds can have resistance swings as juice control is used... just an informative video...



Solid connections are very important at every point within the device and topper. This includes the connection of the center pins of the 510 connectors both on the device and the topper. A dirty connection at this area can also effect resistance. Periodic cleaning of the center pins may be a good thing...


I have commented at least twice on this video in the appropriate thread(s).

Succinctly, this video is utter nonsense (horse do-do).

On my ohm reader I get a variation of 0.01 between juice control OPEN/CLOSED. On my mod (rDNA 40) I get no variation at all.

How to explain the result shown? Either the poster is using a bad clone, or, his Kayfun v4 is improperly assembled.

Please ignore this result. If you have resistance variation seek a resolution elsewhere....
 

cobalt327

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I have previously posted a fix for the KFv4 atty clones if it seizes the juice control ring when part number ("p/n") 9 is fully tightened- and p/n 9 does need to be fully tightened if good connectivity is to be expected. It is being reposted below w/some additions/revisions:

If you want your KFv4 juice control to work right (JC ring too tight/loose/wobbling, tightening p/n 9 causes the JC ring to freeze up, atty resistance too high or wandering), modify p/n 7 by thinning it. Mine started out at 0.044" (~1.1mm), taking it down to 0.028" (~0.7mm) allowed p/n 9 to be fully tightened yet allowed the juice control (aka “JC”) ring to turn with just a little resistance. Some resistance is needed to keep the setting stable- too loose and it turns too easily. And obviously too tight and the JC will not turn at all.

NOTE- There's a "fix" that involves tightening p/n 9 "just enough" to allow the juice control ring to turn- but not FULLY tightening it. The biggest problem with this quick-fix is high resistance! p/n 9 has to be TIGHT!

When I first built mine, I used a piece of nickel wire across the terminals on the build deck instead of a coil- this was to check for resistance and I found 1.4 ohms- WAY too much. After thinning p/n 7 (and fully tightening p/n 9) I rechecked and found 0.3 ohms. I chalk the 0.3 ohms up to the several threaded connections used between the 510 and the terminals at the deck, the use of stainless for the 510 pin, and to the steel spring- even though it's supposed to be silver plated (the original uses a beryllium alloy/silver plated spring).

So other than the above, knocking the chips out of the four juice holes in p/n 17 (I used a #59 drill bit to finish drilling the holes), putting proper ‘flats’ on both ends of spring p/n 12, a thorough cleaning- and I do mean thorough- needs to be done to get rid of the oil smell and the machining debris. I recommend taking it completely apart before using, down to the deck screws and all O-rings (mine was missing O-ring p/n 19 and would have leaked like a sieve had I not caught it, the spares kit had one thankfully) in order to get it clean. Taking it down all the way is no big deal IMHO, what with a large drawing of the parts and their relation to one another to assist with dis- and reassembly.

FWIW #1
There's another fix for the problem described above. It involves fashioning a shim (some have used a soda can for the shim stock). The shim is placed in the square recess of p/n 3; this spaces p/n 8 higher- which in effect does the same thing as thinning p/n 7. Now, I have not tried this but I see no reason that it couldn't work. There should be more info available by doing a search, should anyone want to look into using that method.

FWIW #2
I have seen several posts/threads/videos on removing the spring from the KFv4. In the ones I saw /read, the juice control ring's function was eliminated. There may or may not be others that retain full use of the juice control ring- that will be up to the reader to discern.
 
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BlueridgeDog

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Last night I rebuilt some of my RTAs for higher resistance builds, going to ten wraps of 28g around a 6-32 machine screw. This was up from 8. The logic is that a higher base resistance value will be less (slightly) impacted by some of the resistance variables (as a percentage of the total) than a lower resistance build. Some of my nickel builds were .09. Now they are .18.
 

retird

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Last night I rebuilt some of my RTAs for higher resistance builds, going to ten wraps of 28g around a 6-32 machine screw. This was up from 8. The logic is that a higher base resistance value will be less (slightly) impacted by some of the resistance variables (as a percentage of the total) than a lower resistance build. Some of my nickel builds were .09. Now they are .18.

Will be interested to know what effect you see between the differing ohm builds....
 

TheotherSteveS

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Last night I rebuilt some of my RTAs for higher resistance builds, going to ten wraps of 28g around a 6-32 machine screw. This was up from 8. The logic is that a higher base resistance value will be less (slightly) impacted by some of the resistance variables (as a percentage of the total) than a lower resistance build. Some of my nickel builds were .09. Now they are .18.

did it work?!?!?!
 

Steamer861

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I have commented at least twice on this video in the appropriate thread(s).

Succinctly, this video is utter nonsense (horse do-do).

On my ohm reader I get a variation of 0.01 between juice control OPEN/CLOSED. On my mod (rDNA 40) I get no variation at all.

How to explain the result shown? Either the poster is using a bad clone, or, his Kayfun v4 is improperly assembled.

Please ignore this result. If you have resistance variation seek a resolution elsewhere....

Have to Agree! that video on a Kay-Fun V4 NI200 build is a Joke
If you are going to use NI 200 in a KF V4 you need to eliminate the spring. There are several ways to do it.
This video shows the method I'm using and my V4 works perfect with TC :)

 

KGie

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Nice. Those middle three paragraphs should be in a User's Guide accompanying every DNA 40 ever sold.

The "Official DNA 40" thread has died a slow agonizing death largely centered around debate on the quality of one vendor's product.

This thread is not for the discussion of any particular chip, but for those wanting to build temperature controlled setups using nickel and/or titanium and a chip that can control temperature of the coil.

Based on research and collective experimentation to date, the process of temperature control can be impacted by several factors that a mod builder or a person using a RDA or RTA will encounter. The first is that changes in resistance, even very small changes, can influence the performance of the TC chip. For example, if your build has a weak connection or cold solder join that can present potentially variable resistance, the TC chip will perform poorly. Additionally if your RDA or RTA has high static resistance or the potential for variable resistance, you will encounter issues.

Coil builds themselves can cause issues, micro coils that touch can change resistance over time and throw off the quality of the TC chip output. Coils that are close enough to the build deck so that juice will create a variable resistance connectivity path will also throw off the TC chip, as will coils that are not attached well to the posts.

Finally, the TC chip has to make some assumptions about the environment, i.e. is the atty at the same starting temperature as the mod? Consider the following: A mod that has been in your pocket and is at 85F and an atty that has been on the shelf in your 65F room will work poorly as the TC chip will assume that the atty is at 85F and base its wattage output to get your desired temperature off the assumption that the starting temp of the atty was substantially warmer than it was. To fight this, most chips attempt some sort of "refinement" over time, when if left alone, they recalculate the base resistance of the coil based on the assumption that if it has not been used for some time, the coil is likely to be the same temperature of the mod.

I hope this thread can be a source of discussion in controlling these variables, in understanding how they interact and in helping make these chips work really well in our mods.
 

KGie

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I'm having good luck with the kanger pre-made nickel .15 ohm coils refining .01 or .02 usually and sometimes a dirty 510 center pin lets them read differently....just a matter of cleaning the center pin....

I've had the same good experience with my Aerotank Mini. With my Aerotank V2, OTOH, using the same coil, the resistance reads too high and varies way too much. I've tried cleaning the contacts and putting in a new coil with no luck, so I think it's fair to assume the problem is somewhere in the 510 connection, likely where the atty connects to the rDNA, or possibly where the coil connects to the atty. Any suggestions as to how to fix it? I'm not a particularly heavy vaper, but I've found the Mini doesn't seem to vape very well when it starts getting low on juice. ("Low" being not that low, actually.)
 

retird

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I've had the same good experience with my Aerotank Mini. With my Aerotank V2, OTOH, using the same coil, the resistance reads too high and varies way too much. I've tried cleaning the contacts and putting in a new coil with no luck, so I think it's fair to assume the problem is somewhere in the 510 connection, likely where the atty connects to the rDNA, or possibly where the coil connects to the atty. Any suggestions as to how to fix it? I'm not a particularly heavy vaper, but I've found the Mini doesn't seem to vape very well when it starts getting low on juice. ("Low" being not that low, actually.)

I have no experience with the Aerotanks.....maybe others who have can help ya out... I have heard of others with different brands of tanks ( Kanger subtank mini for example) saying their vape quality decreases also as the tank starts getting low....

I'm not much help really but wanted to reply...
 

MidwestGuy

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I've had the same good experience with my Aerotank Mini. With my Aerotank V2, OTOH, using the same coil, the resistance reads too high and varies way too much. I've tried cleaning the contacts and putting in a new coil with no luck, so I think it's fair to assume the problem is somewhere in the 510 connection, likely where the atty connects to the rDNA, or possibly where the coil connects to the atty. Any suggestions as to how to fix it? I'm not a particularly heavy vaper, but I've found the Mini doesn't seem to vape very well when it starts getting low on juice. ("Low" being not that low, actually.)

@KGie - I've never heard "Aerotank (any variety)" and "Temperature Control" in the same sentence ... can you elaborate on your setup? I'm intrigued!
 

KGie

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BlueridgeDog

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Having vaped for a bit on my six GTS RTA's and two different TC chips, some with .09 and some with .15 builds, I think the higher the resistance (within reason), the better the function of the TC chip. I think this creates a larger statistical hurdle for some of the small resistance variations that will change the output. I am going to bump up to higher resistance with some 30g and see if the trend continues.
 

Nibiru2012

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Kayfun 4 (prior to updated version) builds can have resistance swings as juice control is used... just an informative video...
Solid connections are very important at every point within the device and topper. This includes the connection of the center pins of the 510 connectors both on the device and the topper. A dirty connection at this area can also effect resistance. Periodic cleaning of the center pins may be a good thing...

For what it is worth; the Tobeco brand of Kayfun V4 clone is the most stable there is. This is based on reviews on the web, this website and my own personal experience. I had two other brands of V4 clones and the resistance would never ever stabilize - jumping around all over the place with variances up to 2.5 ohms!
The Tobeco clone was rock solid at 1.0 ohms with only a 0.10 ohm variance while burning in the coil adjusting the glow burn. After that initial adjustment it's never varied.

The only negative with the Tobeco is the fact that no extra O-rings and other parts are not provided, only an extra spring. However that's easily taken care of with ordering parts from either Ebay or FastTech.

Now I will admit that was with Kanthal-built coils @ 1.0 ohm. Once I get my DNA 40 clone MOD and the ni200 then I be able to verify if the Tobeco V4 clone is just as stable with those nickel builds. Once I get the gear I'll post my results.

The Tobeco clone's juice control is the least stiff of the others I tried too. It rotates easily and works like a charm.
 

HDMontana

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Built my first ni200 spaced coil. Came in at 2.3 ohms. 10 wraps of 28 gauge on a 8-32 machine screw. Might be too big. The hole through the center looks enormous. Should I try a 6-32 screw? Wish I had a TP mod to try it on. uploadfromtaptalk1426290601485.jpg Got in on a pre-buy on the IPV4, but who knows when that will ship. Supposedly first of April.

HD
 
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