Titanium wire, vaping and safety

[TheBloke]

Bloke, I don't think that gadget could put much tension on anything. It's a gadget for making jewelry.

Yeah, but what I'm asking is what tool could, or what method is used for tension winding/wrapping? What is tension wrapping?

Actually..

I tension wrap my Ti coils but mostly just from habit. I tension wrapped Ni coils too because they seemed to handle being fit on the atty better than non tension coils. When I moved to Ti, I just went straight to the gizmo and didn't try anything else. I've convinced myself they'll hold up better to vigorous cleaning this way but I have no proof as I've not tested it.

Can you explain what tension wrapping your coils means and how it differs from normal wrapping? By normal wrapping I mean grabbing a bit of wire and wrapping it around a drill bit/mandrel/whatever - or using a Kuro Coiler or similar to do the same thing a bit quicker/easier.

 

[WickedWicks]

So what does count as tension winding? I mean isn't any winding 'tension'?.

It's forming (coiler) vs straining (gizmo, pin vise): Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step. | E-Cigarette Forum
Use 2 wires for spaced coils.

Tell us when you have finished reading the thread

 

[tchavei]

I would read it diagonally.

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[Zombo]

Bloke, I don't think that gadget could put much tension on anything. It's a gadget for making jewelry.

Actually, it rolls with a lot of tension, and I have snapped a few when I wasn't paying a-tension (hehe). Although, you have to make a minor modification by adding a wing nut and a couple of washers to catch one end of your wire. The beauty of it is that it clamps on your desk so it leaves both of your hands free for applying tension....I hold the entire wire spool tightly in my left hand while my right winds the mandrel handle.

Now, I'm no wire scientist, but I did notice two things since I got my Gizmo:

- I retired my torch. I roll 5-6 at a time and put the un-used ones in a baggie. Weeks later they are still picture-perfect (and these are spaced coils).

- My resistance seems more stable. My readings used to fluctuate slightly...nothing to lose sleep over, but just enough to annoy me. For instance, my coil would read 1.0 the first day....a day or two later it might say 1.1 and then a couple of days later it would go back to 1.0...then a few days later it might go up to 1.2, etc. Since getting the coiler, my resistance stays the same 99% of the time ( and I have kept some coils for a couple of months).

I'm not sure how important it really is, at the end of the day, but I use it anyway out of habit. Also, it was way cheaper than most vaping coilers I have seen (that don't even apply tension). And...as a bonus, I can make jewelry.

Didn't mean to derail, thanks for your responses, and I'm off to build my first TC coil woohoo!

 

[Zombo]

Ok I just finished my first Ti build.

I thought TC builds were supposed to be super low Ohms...like 0.02 and such. Mine came out to 0.58 (8ish wraps, 3mm, 26G, spaced)...did I do something wrong? Or is Ti on a different scale compared to Ni?

Also, it's very noisy...popping and sizzling, even though I packed the cotton in there (I prefer my wicking on the heavy side).

So far I have it on 350F and 26J. It's a nice vape, but I haven't noticed yet if if brings anything new to the table (other than no dry-hits, but I never really had a problem with them).

This is just my initial setting though, and I will continue to tweak it. I can definitely see the potential, however.

Also, it wasn't that difficult to work with (and yes, I tension-wound it lol ).

 

[Landman]

Can you explain what tension wrapping your coils means and how it differs from normal wrapping? By normal wrapping I mean grabbing a bit of wire and wrapping it around a drill bit/mandrel/whatever - or using a Kuro Coiler or similar to do the same thing a bit quicker/easier.

WickedWicks covered the link and Zombo covered the idea.

Yes, the original concept was for contact coils using kanthal, but I kept using it even in spaced coils... like Zombo, just out of habit. It's not that I think it has to be done, rather I just enjoy that aspect of the hobby. I don't know if it really makes the vape better - it probably doesn't being a spaced coil. But, it feels like there's less flex when wicking and cleaning. I scrub my Ti coils with a brass wire brush - no deforming and it comes out looking like it did when it was first put in.

Sure, if I was only wrapping one coil, it would be a lot more work than using a coil master/kuro rig, but I'll wrap maybe 10 or so back to back and with Ti, those extra's last a very long time. The last couple times I've set it up was only because I got different sized wire.

The only thing I still use from the gizmo kit is the U shaped base bracket. I fired up the mig welder and made my own crank rod that holds the wing nut and washers. If I didn't already have everything and just started wrapping spaced coils today, I think I'd be fine with a kuro style rig. Considering that Ti can be purchased a decent cost, overall it's probably easier to toss them and wrap a new one when it needs to be rewicked.

But, there's something about old habits...

 

[jks89]

I've heard some discussion of "tension coils" but I'll be damned if I can understand what's magic about them. Is the benefit only related to contact coils? I could use some education that's for sure.

Duane

From what I've read, it was primarily for contact coils as it somehow helped them maintain their shape moreso than wrapping by hand. I was reading that thread when I first started doing my own coils so a lot of it went over my head, but it seemed like somehow the extra tension while winding helped them stay more solid.

Ok I just finished my first Ti build.

I thought TC builds were supposed to be super low Ohms...like 0.02 and such. Mine came out to 0.58 (8ish wraps, 3mm, 26G, spaced)...did I do something wrong? Or is Ti on a different scale compared to Ni?

Also, it's very noisy...popping and sizzling, even though I packed the cotton in there (I prefer my wicking on the heavy side).

So far I have it on 350F and 26J. It's a nice vape, but I haven't noticed yet if if brings anything new to the table (other than no dry-hits, but I never really had a problem with them).

This is just my initial setting though, and I will continue to tweak it. I can definitely see the potential, however.

Also, it wasn't that difficult to work with (and yes, I tension-wound it lol ).

Most TC mods have a range from super low (.05 - .15ish) to 1. It doesn't necessarily have to be super low, but that's what most people would do when using Ni200 since the resistance of the wire is so low. With Ti I've been averaging around .35 - .4 for single coil and .15 - .2 for dual. I've also been wondering how much resistance is really a factor in your vape with TC, since it seems like the mod will regulate it to approximately the same result.

This is totally me making things up and not really factual at all, but it seems like the surface area, mass of coil, etc. are more important than the resistance.

 

[TheBloke]

OK thanks for the links and descriptions!

I'll pass on this one I think

Ok I just finished my first Ti build.

I thought TC builds were supposed to be super low Ohms...like 0.02 and such. Mine came out to 0.58 (8ish wraps, 3mm, 26G, spaced)...did I do something wrong? Or is Ti on a different scale compared to Ni?

Also, it's very noisy...popping and sizzling, even though I packed the cotton in there (I prefer my wicking on the heavy side).

So far I have it on 350F and 26J. It's a nice vape, but I haven't noticed yet if if brings anything new to the table (other than no dry-hits, but I never really had a problem with them).

This is just my initial setting though, and I will continue to tweak it. I can definitely see the potential, however.

Also, it wasn't that difficult to work with (and yes, I tension-wound it lol ).

You've got the impression that TC = super low resistance because TC started with Ni200 and most people still use Ni200 for TC. Ni200 has a super low resistance, which is one of its key disadvantages.

That said, no TC coil will ever be as low as 0.02Ω! The lowest that any TC mod can fire any TC coil is 0.05, and the original DNA 40 mods and their clones - still used by a huge number of people - can't go below 0.10Ω.

One of the many advantages of Titanium is that it gives a higher resistance. This means you use less power and thus battery, it means more wire gauges and builds are possible, including in dual coil. It also makes TC ultimately more accurate.

0.58Ω is higher than I've ever built Titanium to, but no doubt you're using thinner wire than me. I mostly use 26G, which gives me builds in the range 0.35Ω-0.45Ω, and sometimes 24G which puts me 0.25Ω-0.35Ω

If this is your first ever time using TC, then do be very careful that you have very firm connections - the wire is as tight as possible in the atomizer, the atomizer is tight as possible on the device, nothing is loose. A too-high resistance reading, that can be caused by any of those things being wrong, will blow out the TC accuracy. If it's even only 0.1Ω too high, accuracy is gone completely.

As for bringing something new to the table - well, it's not going to in the sense you're perhaps looking for. It's not going to be suddenly more flavoursome or anything like that. It's just going to prevent dry hits - meaning that running out of juice, or having a wicking problem results in less vapour, rather than a sudden blast of dry cotton - and ensure you are not overheating your wire/wick and thus further reduce the chance of getting bad things in your lungs. Those are worthwhile benefits enough.

 

[2legsshrt]

One thing I have noticed with using the coilmaster with Ti is I wrap a contact coil and stretch it to make it spaced and I can get quite a bit better of a coil with close spacing but when I hand wrap it and squeeze it Ti doesn't like to squeeze together as good so i get bigger spacing and a larger coil which is harder to place plus wrapped on the coilmaster I get a tighter coil. Just personal preference but I prefer wrapping a contact and stretching it. Just an amateurs view. The NI200 is so soft it squeezes together really tight if you want it to.

 

[Zombo]

I'm sold. I'm really liking the vape and I haven't even started to tinker with it yet.

My only gripe is the noise...and I think I know what it is now. I remember Pbusardo mentioned that the IPV uses PWM during TC mode. Up until now I have been using a smooth-as-silk P3 and I'm finding the rattlesnake-ing really irritating. I can probably get used to it, but better yet...are there any TC mods that don't use PWM or is it just a necessary evil for TC?

 

[HolmanGT]

I'm sold. I'm really liking the vape and I haven't even started to tinker with it yet.

My only gripe is the noise...and I think I know what it is now. I remember Pbusardo mentioned that the IPV uses PWM during TC mode. Up until now I have been using a smooth-as-silk P3 and I'm finding the rattlesnake-ing really irritating. I can probably get used to it, but better yet...are there any TC mods that don't use PWM or is it just a necessary evil for TC?

Any mod that uses the DNA40 or DNA200 by Evolv.

Original VapeCige VTBox200 200W TC VV / VW Mod-160 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

Original Hcigar VT 200 200W TC Mod-174 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

 

[jks89]

I'm sold. I'm really liking the vape and I haven't even started to tinker with it yet.

My only gripe is the noise...and I think I know what it is now. I remember Pbusardo mentioned that the IPV uses PWM during TC mode. Up until now I have been using a smooth-as-silk P3 and I'm finding the rattlesnake-ing really irritating. I can probably get used to it, but better yet...are there any TC mods that don't use PWM or is it just a necessary evil for TC?

I haven't noticed any noise with my Invader Mini or iStick TC40W.

 

[Croak]

I'm sold. I'm really liking the vape and I haven't even started to tinker with it yet.

My only gripe is the noise...and I think I know what it is now. I remember Pbusardo mentioned that the IPV uses PWM during TC mode. Up until now I have been using a smooth-as-silk P3 and I'm finding the rattlesnake-ing really irritating. I can probably get used to it, but better yet...are there any TC mods that don't use PWM or is it just a necessary evil for TC?

Cut your joules down, or increase your temp, you'll notice the rattlesnake smooths out. Yihi 330 and 130 boards try to keep you at your selected joules as much as possible, and that'll cause it to rattlesnake quite noticeably if your target joules is mismatched with your target temp (throws full joules, overshoots/hits limit, cuts joules way back, throws full joules at the coil again, lather rinse rattlesnake).

And throwing 26j to a coil you want to run at 350F is indeed a mismatch, plus the too-high joules setting could also be part of your popping and sizzling problem.

But wicking is the most likely culprit, try LESS cotton and see what happens, sounds like you're oversaturated, and unlike Kanthal builds that keep climbing in temp and can eventually overwhelm even heavy wicking, your current build is trying to stay at a set (and LOW) temperature and can't "burn off" an excess of juice the same way.

Do keep in mind that PG vaporizes just under 400F, and VG just above 500F. You're basically boiling some of the juice, but not giving it enough heat to fully vaporize the entire mix, and the popping is vapor bubbles escaping out of still-liquid juice, and the sizzling is liquid juice hitting a bit of coil that was temporarily dry due to the force of a vapor "pop". What you're seeing is akin to a pot of water that's bubbling a bit, but not at a rolling boil. What you want is a rolling boil.

 

[ThunderDan]

Has anybody tried this stuff?

TA1 Titanium Wire 30ft

Should I even bother?

 

[HolmanGT]

Has anybody tried this stuff?

TA1 Titanium Wire 30ft

Should I even bother?

Dan,

I glanced at the site. It says TA1 but it does not say "Ti Grade 1", yes it is implied but that is the art of Snake Oil salesmen. I would ask them why it doesn't say "Titanium Grade 1" if in fact that is what it is.

By the way all this "to-do" about who to buy from is getting a little silly in my opinion. If it is "Ti Gadre 1" and the price fits your budget I would just go for it. By the same token the bandits selling Ti Grade 1 at a $1/ft I would stay away from they obviously have no concern for the best interest of their customers.


PS - when you buy just keep in mind that the resistance is considerably higher than Ni200 so you might want to take a look at the Steam Engine Calculator to determine which gauge will suit your particular needs. If you are using a DNA 200 the gauge is of little concern when you get into the 24 or 22 Ga range and heat up delay will be taken care of by the DNA 200. I use 24 but wish I had bought 22. Example 24 Ga on a 4.5mm mandrel with 5/4 turns is about 0.2 ohms. I would prefer 6 to 8 turns @ 0.2.
(four cents) Oh - yes 4.5mm ID is large but bigger is better isn't it?

 

[TheBloke]

But in the description it does say "Surgical Grade 1 Titanium" ?

 

[ThunderDan]

Dan,

I glanced at the site. It says TA1 but it does not say "Ti Grade 1", yes it is implied but that is the art of Snake Oil salesmen. I would ask them why it doesn't say "Titanium Grade 1" if in fact that is what it is.

By the way all this "to-do" about who to buy from is getting a little silly in my opinion. If it is "Ti Gadre 1" and the price fits your budget I would just go for it. By the same token the bandits selling Ti Grade 1 at a $1/ft I would stay away from they obviously have no concern for the best interest of their customers.


PS - when you buy just keep in mind that the resistance is considerably higher than Ni200 so you might want to take a look at the Steam Engine Calculator to determine which gauge will suit your particular needs. If you are using a DNA 200 the gauge is of little concern when you get into the 24 or 22 Ga range and heat up delay will be taken care of by the DNA 200. I use 24 but wish I had bought 22. Example 24 Ga on a 4.5mm mandrel with 5/4 turns is about 0.2 ohms. I would prefer 6 to 8 turns @ 0.2.
(four cents) Oh - yes 4.5mm ID is large but bigger is better isn't it?

Thanks. I'll give it a go, I'm guessing its Ti Gr1, probably imported, probably will need to be thoroughly cleaned. I was on their site ordering something else (zephyrus rba), and wanted to fill up my cart a little to justify the shipping costs.

 

[TheBloke]

Oh wait hang on, I can tell you almost certainly it's fine

 

[TheBloke]

I didn't look at the picture properly

This look familiar?



That's what I got from 3FVape a week or two ago. $5 for 30ft. EDIT: It's $6.98 now! Ti Grade 1 26 AWG 0.4mm x 10m Titanium Heating Wire for RBA

Perfectly clean, at least appearing so after a thorough alcohol wipe - the first spool I'd seen like that. And with a nice little tab to wrap the wire around!



Of course I can't be absolutely sure it's the same stuff, but the spool and label is identical

 

[TheBloke]

As for the quality - it vapes perfectly fine. All I will say is it feels even softer than other Titaniums I've used. It's no more or less springy than others, but it does feel softer. That might make it more likely to break.

I've only done a couple of coils with it, both under-screw, so I wasn't putting it under strain.

But it vapes fine.