To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.
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Was this memo a hard copy, or was it told to you? Seems Corporation has a different opinion, if they are relaying that there is no such ban.
Would have been nice if someone had a hardcopy, one way or another concerning this matter!
Hate to tell you, but just like when you smoked, that sensation, the tingle, the redness. That's actually pain your feeling. Like when I switched from lights to ultra lights. I missed that throat hit.
Tomorrow morning, your first pull off that PV. Notice anything? Nice and strong throat hit right? Yep. Cause your throat was relaxing all night with some time off.
I used snus (quick side note, my auto correct turned snus into anus, that could have been awkward), and it was that 'burn' I liked.
Maybe like my buddies who have dozens of tattoos. They don't feel it as pain, but something else. Piercings? Rough sex even? A nice deep tissue massage or even a trip to your chiropractor.
This is all pain, but the feelings become associated with something else after long periods of exposure.
Just because the feeling means something different to you doesn't mean it isn't pain. So. In all reality, throat hit is pain.
I know I sound all 100% sure about it. But I'm also sure plenty of people would disagree. So to each their own.
Colonel, you of all people should understand the ramifications of not advocating PVs indoors. You can't vape at Starbucks, Red Lobster or anywhere else indoors (and perhaps any public outdoor park or beach is they follow NYC's model). You are in the only state that has banned PVs from indoor public use, at least so far. Was there any scientific evidence? NO They just did it.
I read a number of the pages on this very long thread and I feel that those that have decided to act as if they were still smoking are doing a disservice to themselves as well as the vaping community. If the general public begins to believe that vaping is the same as smoking the war will be over before it is fought. Bans will go in place, one by one, and eventually you will be standing side by side with the smokers that you have predetermined that you should be next to.
I'm certainly not saying you should take a militant stance, but educating both smokers and non-smokers is our only, best hope. You can't educate them if you are constantly hiding from them. My gf's daughter was pregnant and has since had the baby. She's had a fit about her mother vaping around her when she was pregnant, won't tolerate her smoking (she still does unfortunately) before she touches the baby. Yes, she's heard of the horror of third hand smoke. That's what makes the headlines. Propaganda at its finest.
I for one, although I vape very little and normally low nic liquid, don't go out of my way to avoid vaping wherever I feel I may be able to start up a conversation. In my two years, I have never had anyone have a negative reaction to my vaping and many have questioned me positively about what it was all about. Education.
Finally, in terms of the long term studies that everyone wants to see done. Not in your lifetime will that occur. To have long term studies, you need long term usage. That's where epidemiology stepped in, cherry picked the results they wanted and made SHS into a subject where "one whiff can cause damage to the smoker and those around them". It's got to be true since the surgeon general stated it from a voluminousness study created by the antis. No manufacturer or vendor can do these studies. If they did it would only be biased work by the PV industry according to the antis.
In addition, vapers generally were smokers. I'd say exclusively but I'm sure at some point some will start vaping that never smoked. At least I would if I was young and felt I needed "something". I didn't smoke until I was 19 and then only because I was stressed out and needed something. Cigarettes, at that time, were the answer and they calm. Having been smokers and now vapers, you carry almost as much risk as a smoker based on what I've studied. In the case of lung cancer, the CDC has reported three times the risk. It will be very easy for them to decree any disease that you might get as a vaping statistic, minimizing the confounding fact that you were a smoker at one time.
What we need is less people in a thread like this and more people paying attention to what CASAA uncovers. The news section keeps us abreast of where PV issues are occurring and CASAA puts out alerts where action is needed. It's not hard to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Militancy or submission are not the answers. Spend a little time building your story, use some of the information CASAA provides to make a case and start sending out to those that are making decisions that will affect your future. The same story can be sent out time and again with minor changes to put relevancy to the current situation.
Nobody else is going too be able to help this cause other than each of you. JMHO
I read a number of the pages on this very long thread and I feel that those that have decided to act as if they were still smoking are doing a disservice to themselves as well as the vaping community. If the general public begins to believe that vaping is the same as smoking the war will be over before it is fought. Bans will go in place, one by one, and eventually you will be standing side by side with the smokers that you have predetermined that you should be next to.
I'm certainly not saying you should take a militant stance, but educating both smokers and non-smokers is our only, best hope. You can't educate them if you are constantly hiding from them. My gf's daughter was pregnant and has since had the baby. She's had a fit about her mother vaping around her when she was pregnant, won't tolerate her smoking (she still does unfortunately) before she touches the baby. Yes, she's heard of the horror of third hand smoke. That's what makes the headlines. Propaganda at its finest.
I for one, although I vape very little and normally low nic liquid, don't go out of my way to avoid vaping wherever I feel I may be able to start up a conversation. In my two years, I have never had anyone have a negative reaction to my vaping and many have questioned me positively about what it was all about. Education.
Finally, in terms of the long term studies that everyone wants to see done. Not in your lifetime will that occur. To have long term studies, you need long term usage. That's where epidemiology stepped in, cherry picked the results they wanted and made SHS into a subject where "one whiff can cause damage to the smoker and those around them". It's got to be true since the surgeon general stated it from a voluminousness study created by the antis. No manufacturer or vendor can do these studies. If they did it would only be biased work by the PV industry according to the antis.
In addition, vapers generally were smokers. I'd say exclusively but I'm sure at some point some will start vaping that never smoked. At least I would if I was young and felt I needed "something". I didn't smoke until I was 19 and then only because I was stressed out and needed something. Cigarettes, at that time, were the answer and they calm. Having been smokers and now vapers, you carry almost as much risk as a smoker based on what I've studied. In the case of lung cancer, the CDC has reported three times the risk. It will be very easy for them to decree any disease that you might get as a vaping statistic, minimizing the confounding fact that you were a smoker at one time.
What we need is less people in a thread like this and more people paying attention to what CASAA uncovers. The news section keeps us abreast of where PV issues are occurring and CASAA puts out alerts where action is needed. It's not hard to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Militancy or submission are not the answers. Spend a little time building your story, use some of the information CASAA provides to make a case and start sending out to those that are making decisions that will affect your future. The same story can be sent out time and again with minor changes to put relevancy to the current situation.
Nobody else is going too be able to help this cause other than each of you. JMHO
I don't know, my pink ego t looks rather like a breathing treatment apparatus!!
Like I said. No long term studies. Anyway. The reason I don't vape where it's not wanted is not because I'm associating it with smoking. It's because I'm being an easy person to get along with. Also, I quit smoking a short 5 months ago. I haven't smoked a cigarette indoors in almost 6 years because of laws and such. Of course they make sense to me. I wouldn't want people smoking at my dinner table. So. I actually don't feel the desire to smoke indoors. (that makes this conversation sooo easy for me). I'm sure people in other states with less harsh smoking restrictions find it more difficult.
The real point is that as much as I love my PV and not smoking, I don't do it for Starbucks or anyone else, I do it for me and my family. I don't really care if the rest of the world isn't patting me on the back for quitting something that everyone told me not to start. Just starting smoking 13years ago makes me feel stupid.
This is all perception. Not fact. You said it yourself, cigarettes "are calming", thats perception, because in fact cigs are a stimulant and are the exact opposite of calming. Perception is opinion and personal. So it's going to take a long time to change people's opinions. And it's going to have to be nice. You catch more flies with honey.
My direction was this: Boycotting places that ban ecig use makes vapers seem like spiteful jerks who will do whatever it takes to make sure ignorance is met with negative consequences. I'm not all about rolling over and dying, I'm just about meeting adversity with open arms and competent direction.
So I hope you think a bit more of me and don't think I am just watching civil rights get trampled because I'm too chickenpoo to do anything about it.
I love showing off my PV. And am
Actually at work today. Vaping away some dekang at my desk. Indoors. Woot woot.
Lol. I gotta stop getting into this kinda thing.
I feel like I should stock up the bomb shelter and put on my fatigues. It's war baby! Vapers vs the government.
Anyone who ever said history repeats itself...cigarettes. Alcohol. Public nudity? Don't know if that last one applies. The hardest thing about this is the argument that alcohol and tobacco products cause physical harm to the users and frequently even those exposed to it's use. And I would agree that vapor doesn't. But who's to say for sure? The earth is flat. Butter is delicious. Cocain makes soda tingly. cigarettes are sophisticated. Livers last forever. All assumptions gone wrong. If anyone was taught these lessons for a reason, that reason is to not be over presumptuous. Especially when your talking about another person. Because, honesty, even though the government may just be ...... they are missing out on taxes and tariffs, they have a point, the people at Starbucks have rights too. And that includes the right to be skeptical of a lithium ion battery that vaporizes an odd mixture of PG VG flavors and nicotine. If I wasn't a vaper, I'd be a bit weary myself.
Flip the coin. F you government agencies. Get your head out of your ... and do some honest paper work before you control the way I live my life. Is your poor little FDA throwing a tantrum because people have found a better way to avoid smoking? The FDA has only approved 5 (I believe) products for help to quit smoking. And they let BT do all the leg work. That's a huge conflict of interest. Ok. BT. We want people to stop giving you money. Please find us the best way to do that. Um. Sure. Why don't you use this pill we found. It will probably work. Sure it will probably give you really bad dreams and make you try to kill yourself with limited success. But it also has decent chance of curbing nicotine cravings by way of altering the way your brain works. It has a 90% success rate. But there's only a 10% chance of that.
I feel like I should stock up the bomb shelter and put on my fatigues. It's war baby! Vapers vs the government.
Anyone who ever said history repeats itself...cigarettes. Alcohol. Public nudity? Don't know if that last one applies. The hardest thing about this is the argument that alcohol and tobacco products cause physical harm to the users and frequently even those exposed to it's use. And I would agree that vapor doesn't. But who's to say for sure? The earth is flat. Butter is delicious. Cocain makes soda tingly. cigarettes are sophisticated. Livers last forever. All assumptions gone wrong. If anyone was taught these lessons for a reason, that reason is to not be over presumptuous. Especially when your talking about another person. Because, honesty, even though the government may just be ...... they are missing out on taxes and tariffs, they have a point, the people at Starbucks have rights too. And that includes the right to be skeptical of a lithium ion battery that vaporizes an odd mixture of PG VG flavors and nicotine. If I wasn't a vaper, I'd be a bit weary myself.
Flip the coin. F you government agencies. Get your head out of your ... and do some honest paper work before you control the way I live my life. Is your poor little FDA throwing a tantrum because people have found a better way to avoid smoking? The FDA has only approved 5 (I believe) products for help to quit smoking. And they let BT do all the leg work. That's a huge conflict of interest. Ok. BT. We want people to stop giving you money. Please find us the best way to do that. Um. Sure. Why don't you use this pill we found. It will probably work. Sure it will probably give you really bad dreams and make you try to kill yourself with limited success. But it also has decent chance of curbing nicotine cravings by way of altering the way your brain works. It has a 90% success rate. But there's only a 10% chance of that.
Can't resist. Yes. There is definitely something wrong with me. I just can't put my finger on it. Maybe a hormone imbalance. Maybe my deodorant. But for sure, there is something amiss. My wife could back us up on this one.
It's actually BP (Big Pharm) not BT (Big Tobacco), that did the reseach and are spending money to kill vaping. The studies done to date, combined with the obvious "dissipation" of vaper makes it assuridly likely that vaping at least causes no harm to bystanders.
"Fatigues", sounds like you're an old-timer like me.... they're BDUs now!
I was referring to BT in relation to smoking cessation products that have been evaluated and approved by the FDA (my dentist was always giving me literature). And you used the word 'likely'. Just like when you're on a jury, reasonable doubt.
My goal is not to play devils advocate, or choose the wrong side, but I could say that: I can see the vapor and smell it, so there is likely to be something there besides water right? And cigarette smoke dissipates as well, so that is obviously not a factor in terms of defining harmful effects. And my clothes from last night all smelled like madvapes red velvet cake. So that vapor settled down and is remnant. Just like cigarette smoke.
With so many variables and undefined conclusions regarding vaping, public discussion involving definitive use of terms like 'harmless' and 'water vapor' are very shaky ground. I think we can all at least agree that what we exhale is not 100% water vapor. So what's the rest of it? I don't know. So I don't pretend to know. I mean, Imagine saying it this way to someone at a restaurant, "it's ok, it's not real smoke, just water vapor and other stuff that is likely to be harmless to you.". Really? I'd be like, "likely to be?! According to who?".
I guess all I'm saying is that I cant expect the people around me to take my word for it. I wouldn't. So in the meantime I'll just be polite.
New fangled slang huh? So what does BDU stand for?
Wait, did you just call me an old timer? Lol.
I believe it stands for Battle Dress Uniform?
If you called them fatigues... yep, old timer!
One last thing, because I need to .....
There are a lot of people on ECF that have become aware of allergies to PG or VG. Allergies they never knew they had. There might be a guy at Starbucks who has no idea he is allergic to something in your liquid. Maybe he has a bad reaction to it. Maybe his face swells just a bit or he starts coughing. Uh oh. That might be a bit of a step backwards in the ole fight for vaping rights. I would
Imagine it wouldn't just be inter office memos going around. There would be signs up on the door. And I think that may be a definitive statement.
There are a lot of people on ECF that have become aware of allergies to PG or VG. Allergies they never knew they had. There might be a guy at Starbucks who has no idea he is allergic to something in your liquid. Maybe he has a bad reaction to it. Maybe his face swells just a bit or he starts coughing. Uh oh. That might be a bit of a step backwards in the ole fight for vaping rights. I would
Imagine it wouldn't just be inter office memos going around. There would be signs up on the door. And I think that may be a definitive statement.
Well, sad to say I'm no Hero. I've never served. Just benefited from the scarifices of others. But it's good to know the proper term. Just in case.
Your vaping experience and what others of us vape must be completely different. No smell left anywhere after I vape and what others have reported. Second, the studies I have read stated there are no levels of any harmful substance found in exhaled vapor. PG in fact is used in hospital ventilation systems as a germ fighter. All the evidence and common sense observation point to "no harm" to others. You seem to be in the "it must be proven through the $100 million 30 year study" crowd to not harm others but also to cure the common cold at the same time before we can vape closer than 2 miles from another living being. (slight exaggeration) This type of benchmark is not realistic and borders on absurdity.
Careful Colonel, this thread is not for the open-minded. You'll sooner find the need to defend your opinion against those who might believe that you have no right to think in the way that you may. Those who might say it's more harmful to stay silent in light of vaping bans, most of those who believe that will be first in line to keep you silent on your opinion in this very thread.
Wow, I made a booboo! With your screen name, and using the word "fatigues", I made an assumption.... sorry! Fatigues are what we old-timers were issued (I'm Vietnam era Vet). I don't know what year they came out with BDUs, that was after my time.
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