To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.

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Iffy

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But I give her a lot of credit for sticking with me for 29 years.

Credit? CREDIT?!?! You want me to give her CREDIT? OK, I'll give her credit... Just don't tell my bride of 42 years that I'm giving credit...
smiley_abused.gif


Bless her heart, my bride put up with sooooo much of my self-indulgence and now she's proud of me in giving up cigs. I tried to tell her and my three married daughters that there is no self-pride, 'cause vaping made it all too easy. I have NO pride, just a sincere appreciation for vaping!
 

ShannonA

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*****This was a response I put in a thread about Starbucks banning ecig use in their stores. I felt this was important enough to post for more to see. *****

To be totally and completely honest, I honestly feel that we are digging ourselves into a hole that we may not be able to climb out of. I personally have not tried aerating in a Starbucks and I won't because of the fact that when I smoked analogs I never whipped out a cigarette and tried smoking in one. Starbucks is a COFFEE shop. We should be lucky that there are even bars that allow us to use our PV's and don't make us conform to the non-smoking ban they've put in motion on real cigs. The way I feel about it is, we have a chance to do a lot of good and spread the information about our cause but it is flat out unreasonable for us to demand something that wasn't remotely possible when we used analogs. We wonder why so much is negatively said about our use of PV's but don't stop to take a look in the mirror and realize that pushing our choice on other people may not be the best way to get vaping seen as a ray of hope. I am proud to be an ecig user which is why I joined this forum but I can't agree with the "bans" we put in place on establishments that ask us to respect their decisions while giving them reasons to disrespect ours.

Sincerely, Jeromiah Emanuel, Proud Ecig User.

Well 1st off I didn't know about starbucks and I just took a couple puffs in my local one two days ago (whoops I guess no one noticed next time I'll refrain).

Establishments do have every right to decide whether we can eat, drink, smoke, vape whatever on their premises. This is not new even before the no smoking laws this was true. They were not obligated even when there were smoking sections in most establishments to let us smoke and they are likewise not obligated to let us vape.

That said we have every right to take our business elsewhere and if it hurts their bottom line what will happen? Well they'll change their policy because their making money is why they exist to begin with. If it doesn't we don't go there, we don't vape there and everyone is happy.

Vaping is not smoking and we shouldn't just sit back and smile while people try to treat it like it is.
 

ShannonA

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Well 1st off I didn't know about starbucks and I just took a couple puffs in my local one two days ago (whoops I guess no one noticed next time I'll refrain).

Establishments do have every right to decide whether we can eat, drink, smoke, vape whatever on their premises. This is not new even before the no smoking laws this was true. They were not obligated even when there were smoking sections in most establishments to let us smoke and they are likewise not obligated to let us vape.

That said we have every right to take our business elsewhere and if it hurts their bottom line what will happen? Well they'll change their policy because their making money is why they exist to begin with. If it doesn't we don't go there, we don't vape there and everyone is happy.

Vaping is not smoking and we shouldn't just sit back and smile while people try to treat it like it is.

There is a bigger issue at stake here than whether we have to wait to get our fix or not. It's called personal freedom. Its one of the values this country was founded on and we lose more personal freedoms every year. At what point do we stand up and say enough? After we become socialist?
 

Colonel

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There is a bigger issue at stake here than whether we have to wait to get our fix or not. It's called personal freedom. Its one of the values this country was founded on and we lose more personal freedoms every year. At what point do we stand up and say enough? After we become socialist?

This is not truly the point.

This thread was not about constitutional rights and liberties. (which are two way streets).

It was not about how safe ecigs are.

It's about how you react when a private business bans the use of them (for whatever reason).
 

ShannonA

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This is not truly the point.

This thread was not about constitutional rights and liberties. (which are two way streets).

It was not about how safe ecigs are.

It's about how you react when a private business bans the use of them (for whatever reason).

And again as in my previous post as much as they have the right to refuse to allow things such as vaping we have the right to discontinue our patronage. If we contininue to frequent places who don't allow vaping. Then we in essence say yeah its like smoking go ahead put us in a corner away from everyone else.

The more vaping is shut out the easier it is to ban. Banning it is an issue of personal freedom. Establishments not allowing it is a step down that path. You kid yourself if you think otherwise.
 

ShannonA

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One thing I forgot is... Why should we feel lucky that some bars let us vape and not impose the no smoking policies on us? We're not smoking so we should feel privedged we're treated like we're...not smoking in SOME places?

I quit smoking to still be treated in many places like a smoker aka second class citizen and I should be greatful that I'm not treated that way every place I go? Well I am but the thing is I should not be treated that way ANY place I go. Especially since its possible to vape without anyone but me inhaling anything at all (unlike smoking) and yeah I would swallow my vapor if I knew it bothered the person next to me.
 

Uncle Willie

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I can speak to second hand nicotine vapor. My wife who has never smoked and I are both at home 24/7. After almost 15 months being exposed to my high nic vapor she showed level zero on a Cotinine (nicotine) test. My test was level 5 nicotine user. Not a controlled scientific test but it's a practical indicator that confimed my research.

I thought the cotinine test was a simple positive or negative .. generally showing negative for non smokers / second hand smoke .. ??
 

scinsc

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I thought the cotinine test was a simple positive or negative .. generally showing negative for non smokers / second hand smoke .. ??

I can only speak to the test we took but it shows six levels of exposure. 0= No tobacco exposure. 1&2 = Non smoker (exposure to second hand smoke). 3-6 Smoker.

From the instructions:

"The test can detect as little as 6 nanograms per mL of cotinine (a nanogram is one billionth of a gram, a mL is one fifth of a teaspoon). The amount of exposure you have will vary depending on the amount of smoke in the air and other factors. The test can be positive if you have been in a tobacco smoke environment for a little as an hour in the past 2 to 3 days."
 

Colonel

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I thought the cotinine test was a simple positive or negative .. generally showing negative for non smokers / second hand smoke .. ??

I have no idea. Maybe I'll find out. Maybe it depends on the requested test. As in, the +/- test is $10, the detailed test is $30?

Anyway. I hope the test I got has amounts per quantities. And I hope I can het the results.
 

Uncle Willie

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I can only speak to the test we took but it shows six levels of exposure. 0= No tobacco exposure. 1&2 = Non smoker (exposure to second hand smoke). 3-6 Smoker.

From the instructions:

"The test can detect as little as 6 nanograms per mL of cotinine (a nanogram is one billionth of a gram, a mL is one fifth of a teaspoon). The amount of exposure you have will vary depending on the amount of smoke in the air and other factors. The test can be positive if you have been in a tobacco smoke environment for a little as an hour in the past 2 to 3 days."

so the test showed you at the second highest level .. ?? That surprises me since all I've read seemed to indicate we e-cig users were getting less nico than from analogs ..
 

scinsc

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I am sorry I meant to give the name. It is called TobacAllert and cost about $40-50 for two tests. If you are wondering why we took the test let me explain. I did a great deal of research before I ever tried my first PV and was very comfortable that what I would be exhaling would be miniscule in nature. After over a year of use my wife told me she could smell the flavor I was using. That had never happened before and set off alarms for me. Had she showed a positive result from the test I would be back out in the cold backyard to steam and be lucky to get another meal.
 

Uncle Willie

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I am sorry I meant to give the name. It is called TobacAllert and cost about $40-50 for two tests. If you are wondering why we took the test let me explain. I did a great deal of research before I ever tried my first PV and was very comfortable that what I would be exhaling would be miniscule in nature. After over a year of use my wife told me she could smell the flavor I was using. That had never happened before and set off alarms for me. Had she showed a positive result from the test I would be back out in the cold backyard to steam and be lucky to get another meal.

I understand .. it just seems alarming to me that the test showed your use at the second highest level .. I honestly thought PV's delivered LESS nico than analogs ..
 

scinsc

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so the test showed you at the second highest level .. ?? That surprises me since all I've read seemed to indicate we e-cig users were getting less nico than from analogs ..

Me too. I take an average of about 16 to 20 hits in an hour. Usually no more than 2 or 3 at a time. But I do use a high level of nicotine and it could also be the timing of my test. It could also be poor eyesight reading the results. To tell the truth I wasn't too concerned with my test. My wife’s was the important one.
 
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Levitas

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After over a year of use my wife told me she could smell the flavor I was using. That had never happened before and set off alarms for me.

Really? I can leave the house for hours and come back to my computer and still smell the aroma of Boba's Bounty. When I am vaping, perhaps some sort of fruit or something equally indentifyable, my fiancee can smell it instantly (she would be laying on the bed behind me).

I dunno, that's kind of weird to me that your wife just then started smelling the flavor you were using, after an entire year. But, at least you're trying to at least make sure, if nothing else, that the nicotine isn't causing her any harm, or at the very least, entering and remaining in her system.
 

Uncle Willie

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Until those in the industry wake up and start an ad campaign, the only thing we got is ourselves, spreading the word! The more people see older folks (no offense to the younger people) vaping, especially conservative looking types, business types, Grandma and Grandpa types, at home, at work, etc., the more accepted it will become. Many people see this as a young people's fad, or a smoker's way of smoking when he/she can't. They need to see people vaping outdoors, where smokers aren't banned... on the street, mowing a lawn, etc., to show that given a choice, we don't smoke, we vape.

I really do not know why businesses here in the States aren't advertising in the main stream media. Possibly it's due to the cost of advertising, and the fear that they won't recoup what they spend on the advertising?

Product placement in TV and films is a big deal to studios .. the film, The Tourist, did place an e-cig within the film, more than once, with Johnny Depp .. unfortunately, the film was a bit of a bomb, even though Angelina Jolie was in it as well ..
 

swedishfish

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And again as in my previous post as much as they have the right to refuse to allow things such as vaping we have the right to discontinue our patronage. If we contininue to frequent places who don't allow vaping. Then we in essence say yeah its like smoking go ahead put us in a corner away from everyone else.

The more vaping is shut out the easier it is to ban. Banning it is an issue of personal freedom. Establishments not allowing it is a step down that path. You kid yourself if you think otherwise.

It's not about personal freedom. It's about uneducated business owners that think any kind of exhaled vapor consitutes a danger of second hand smoke.

Lets please not turn everything into some politicized quest for personal freedom or it's going to turn off half the vapors that would otherwise lend support to fighting smoking bans. There are too few of us as it is.
 

scinsc

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Really? I can leave the house for hours and come back to my computer and still smell the aroma of Boba's Bounty. When I am vaping, perhaps some sort of fruit or something equally indentifyable, my fiancee can smell it instantly (she would be laying on the bed behind me).

I dunno, that's kind of weird to me that your wife just then started smelling the flavor you were using, after an entire year. But, at least you're trying to at least make sure, if nothing else, that the nicotine isn't causing her any harm, or at the very least, entering and remaining in her system.

Sorry I should have been clearer. She might have smelled it before that and just not mentioned it. But I had just changed flavors and that is what brought up the subject.
 
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