To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.
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I haven't read all the comments but does this mean if you walk into starbucks doused in perfume or cologne you will be told to go outside?
Sent from my Evo
Sent from my Evo
...sigh...
How is this rational? Sure, perhaps there needs to be studies conducted on how dangerous the fumes from one's perfume or cologne are. But, this isn't the point! If you really desire to have results in a study of that nature, address it at the appropriate source, not the ECF. We're talking about vaping, not perfume.
Have you come across this website?
Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Division - dihydrogen monoxide info
Look how all that information is presented. Then read this article about how a town in California put a bill into play to ban DHMO because of how dangerous the substance is and how prevalent it is.
Something in the dihydrogen monoxide | World news | guardian.co.uk
The reason this is relevant is because it shows how easy it is for a governing body to just take a little misinformation at face value and try to ban it. PERCEPTION IS KEY!
If a bunch of high profile companies ban the use of PVs, they are giving out the impression that PVs must be bad in some way. The average citizen, or even governing body, isn't going to take the time to research every topic that comes in for them to decide on. They are going to do the knee-jerk reaction that they do. We, as vapers, have a duty to show that our PVs are not cigarettes, do not produce smoke, and more like a ipod than a cigarette.
We do not have to prove that the vapor exhaled is 100% safe, any more than the person next to you on his/her cell phone has to prove that the signals from his/her phone aren't slowly giving you brain cancer. Or that the receptionist at the counter isn't giving you lung disease from the fumes of her open nail polish bottle. Or that the radiation coming from the microwaves used at burger king is causing you to go sterile. There is no way that the exhaled vapor coming from a PV user is going to be any more harmful than breathing in the city air during walking from your home to your car in a city.
For those of you who do not understand what DHMO is, it's water.
I would venture to say, any establishment can ask you to leave, if your appearance, body odor, language, etc., is considered offensive to their other customers, or employees! You are right, the question is WILL such a person be asked to leave.
This is extreme in some sense. Are you implying that if establishments like Starbucks start to ban vaping indoors that eventually it will lead to a wide-spread panic, ultimately ending in the banning of vaping through out the nation?
Also, another question, how do you believe one should go about this then? Just vape anywhere and everywhere, with no concern of how anyone else feels about it? I agree whole hearted that discussion of the vaping is necassary. The thing is though, vaping may not cause any health issues with anyone else aside of the user. Hell, it may not even affect the user in any serious, adverse way. But, we just do not know this information for sure. I agree that we should be able to use this product, as a safer alternative to smoking. I do not agree to subject others to my vapor because of my opinion backed with limited research on how safe it is or not. Regardless of any other element in life, I am not speaking of that, only vaping.
Also, another question, how do you believe one should go about this then? Just vape anywhere and everywhere, with no concern of how anyone else feels about it? I agree whole hearted that discussion of the vaping is necassary. The thing is though, vaping may not cause any health issues with anyone else aside of the user. Hell, it may not even affect the user in any serious, adverse way. But, we just do not know this information for sure. I agree that we should be able to use this product, as a safer alternative to smoking. I do not agree to subject others to my vapor because of my opinion backed with limited research on how safe it is or not. Regardless of any other element in life, I am not speaking of that, only vaping.
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It's as rational as your argument which also seems to mimic the argument used by the FDA, ACS and every other organization that say's they haven't been 'proven' to be safe and has no intention of trying to prove they are or they aren't. It isn't in their interest, not going to happen. It certainly won't happen if we hide them. Then we're included in the blanket cigarette ban.
My point is, it's not rational. Just like asking people who are vaping to go outside. Just because you can see the vapor people have an issue. I would bet money inhaling fumes from grandmas knock off swap shop "diamonds" is way more toxic than "second hand vapor", not to mention a lot more offensive.....
Sent from my Evo
I'm going to follow up my earlier post by adding that we have two camps .. Camp One says respect the perception of smoke and stay basically in the closet .. Camp Two says I'll use my e-cig where ever and when ever I like and one by one I'll educate the public whenever I need to ..
In response to many of the posts .. IMO, it is not the job of the e-cig user to provide an individual seminar to each and every person that does not know what a PV is .. as well, our collective input means little to nothing when it comes to any hint of a ban in a public place or as it relates to any possible regulation .. why .. ??
Because in this World, a professionally done campaign to educate the public thru magazines, websites, television and what not is the only way the word can get out and be accepted as a fact .. and that is the responsibility of the vendors / merchants and any organization that bases it's existence on the promotion of e-cig use .. collectively, the folks that are selling the goods should get together and pool some profit and get the ball rolling ..
Will they .. ?? I'm not going to hold my breath .. so many vendors have sprung up in this industry that are there to simply capitalize on what they see as a short term quick profit .. there is no driving force that I see steering the industry at this point .. and, until there is, we can write all the letters we want to politicians, we can preach all day long in the parking lot or at the table in a restaurant, we can rant all we want right here ..
So many posts talk about Big Tobacco and the lobbiest conspiracy and what not .. well .. to be accepted, you have to use the system .. your not going to change the system .. you must adapt and work within it .. that's how it works and that's why it's called a system ..
In response to many of the posts .. IMO, it is not the job of the e-cig user to provide an individual seminar to each and every person that does not know what a PV is .. as well, our collective input means little to nothing when it comes to any hint of a ban in a public place or as it relates to any possible regulation .. why .. ??
Because in this World, a professionally done campaign to educate the public thru magazines, websites, television and what not is the only way the word can get out and be accepted as a fact .. and that is the responsibility of the vendors / merchants and any organization that bases it's existence on the promotion of e-cig use .. collectively, the folks that are selling the goods should get together and pool some profit and get the ball rolling ..
Will they .. ?? I'm not going to hold my breath .. so many vendors have sprung up in this industry that are there to simply capitalize on what they see as a short term quick profit .. there is no driving force that I see steering the industry at this point .. and, until there is, we can write all the letters we want to politicians, we can preach all day long in the parking lot or at the table in a restaurant, we can rant all we want right here ..
So many posts talk about Big Tobacco and the lobbiest conspiracy and what not .. well .. to be accepted, you have to use the system .. your not going to change the system .. you must adapt and work within it .. that's how it works and that's why it's called a system ..
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I'm giving you real life examples of what can 'possibly' happen. Maybe your trust in the general public is askew?
Ever heard the saying, "Nice guys finish last."? I applaud that you are of high enough moral standards to not want to subject others to your vapor because you feel that it's not proven to be 100% safe around others. But the problem lies in that the vast majority do not feel this way. My examples above show how other products which are not proven to be 100% safe around others are still used without the health of the bystanders in mind.
Do you drive a vehicle? Do you drive the same vehicle past somebody walking on the sidewalk? What about the emissions from your vehicle that the pedestrian is forced to breath in? If you put PVs on a high enough pedestal, it'll never pass your expectations of being considered "safe" for others. If enough people follow your example, PVs will be banned due to fear of the unknown.
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Vaping in a convenience store, or trying to convince someone that you can vape because it's legal?
What happened to self control, handling your "nic fit" and waiting until you're in an appropriate area?
I'm a vaper, and being a radio guy and karaoke host, a huuuuge extrovert. I don't vape anywhere in public that I wouldn't smoke.
I'm in control of nicotine. It doesn't control me.
What happened to self control, handling your "nic fit" and waiting until you're in an appropriate area?
I'm a vaper, and being a radio guy and karaoke host, a huuuuge extrovert. I don't vape anywhere in public that I wouldn't smoke.
I'm in control of nicotine. It doesn't control me.
Every business has the right to ban anything they don't like. They could choose to not serve you because you are wearing blue shoes. They set a rule, follow it, or go elsewhere. If I want to vape while having a coffee, I get it to go. If I want to read a paper, I sit down inside, and leave my PV in my pocket.
No, you're not really understanding my point of view if this is what you really believe. I am not mimicking anyone, I am speaking from my own thoughts, perceptions and what I know at this point and I what I learn daily. You seem to think I do not wish to see if vaping is ultimately safe or not. I've been arguing this entire time that this is ALL that I want. Don't misinterpret my words, or misrepresent my opinions. This isn't a "me" against "you" conversation, this is a "We" need to work together to make it work for all of us.
If I had the funds, I would personally fund a extensive, long term experiment with absolutely no bias. I just want to know, for sure, how safe or not it is. Is that so wrong?
Right, I can agree with the fact that it isn't completely rational. Why ban an electronic cigarette for possible but not perfume or anything else that might emit harmful odors or what not. Well, we're talking about vaping. At this point, it is correlated with cigarette smoke because it is a nicotine replacement. All of our lives we have linked nicotine to cigarettes and cigarettes kill. Not perfume, or fake diamonds. It will take years of solid research to debunk any negative correlation and show the public that it is alright, or not. This is my point.
I've been trying to find some link to anything from Starbucks concerning a ban on PVs in their stores. All I am finding are PV forums concerning it. Does anyone have a Starbuck's link that specifically addresses this issue? Is it possible that the incident involved one Starbucks, and that the employee was actually just speaking out of his/her ... to make it sound "official"?
Be careful what you say, else you might be linked to the FDA or perhaps as someone who wishes to see vaping banned... Opinions are just what they are, and I agree with these two opinions.
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make with an earlier post ..
I refuse to compare my vaping habit to smoking. Its not the same and I will never treat it the same. In my eyes, vaping is harmless to me and others. I will vape where I want until its proven NOT SAFE.
There seems to be a re-occurring theme to your posts. Do you honestly believe that the world is so black and white? That there is no grey area?
I'm glad you put "IMO", because it is solely just an opinion, not based on any fact whatsoever. It is up to each and every user whether they want to take on the role of educator. Our collective input can mean a lot more than you can possibly imagine. There are approx 312,000,000 legally registered people in the USA alone. If 20% of those smoke, that's 62,400,000 smokers. If even just 1% of those use PVs, that's 624,000 PV users. That's a very conservative guesstimate because more and more people switch all the time.
A professionally done campaign is NOT the only way to educate the public. Word of mouth is such a strong influence that almost every business marketer strives to have referral programs. It is the responsibility of EVERYBODY who cares about PVs to educate the public, not just vendors/merchants. Why do you insist that we have no say in matters that most of us hold quite dear?
Why are you so jaded? I don't understand what you hope to accomplish with the tone of your posts.
Refusing to admit there might be a health hazard, even if it's a remote chance, is nothing but selfish .. I can name off, and so can many of the other members of this forum, a long list of things that were once thought safe, only to be discovered later to be harmful .. and an analog cig is one of them .. stating anything different is just plain wrong ..
@Darrigaaz .. my post is reality .. if you honestly believe otherwise, and that mono on mono is going to sway the public, hey, go for it ..
And yes, things are pretty well black and white when it comes to this issue .. how about this for a newsflash .. ?? .. So many want to change the publics mind, yet so many fear a nation wide awareness campaign .. ?? Why is that .. ??
Next .. if you feel the need to attack my posts, why not just ignore them .. ??
I am not alone in my way of thinking .. the difference is, I'm not afraid to put it bluntly .. sometimes, the voice of reason hurts ..
And yes, things are pretty well black and white when it comes to this issue .. how about this for a newsflash .. ?? .. So many want to change the publics mind, yet so many fear a nation wide awareness campaign .. ?? Why is that .. ??
Next .. if you feel the need to attack my posts, why not just ignore them .. ??
I am not alone in my way of thinking .. the difference is, I'm not afraid to put it bluntly .. sometimes, the voice of reason hurts ..
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