Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Str8vision]

Well here's where I get to eat some crow. The coils in my Magma dripper were looking a bit ragged so I rebuilt them last night. This morning I decided to vape the samples of Billy Bud from the six month cold extraction (just to get them out of the way) and was -choked- by how strong they were. Side by side with the results from a hot extraction I'd estimate they're at least 20% stronger in flavor intensity, especially the cigar leaf and Latakia tobaccos that are in the blend which are quite bold. C&D's signature casing note is also unusually vibrant, something I haven't been able to "taste" in a very long time. I haven't re-tested Sutliff's "Voodoo Queen" yet (another of the six month long cold extractions) but I suspect the results I observed yesterday may have been skewed by the same worn coils that fouled the samples of Billy Bud. I had sampled both the Billy Bud and Voodoo Queen after 4 months of cold soak and they just weren't ready so it required 6 full months to reach this level of flavor intensity, a very long time to wait.

 

[happy valley]

Interesting, so one could conceivably mix the longer soaks at a lesser % then, no?

(btw, tip 'o the cap on the thread hitting the 1000 posts mark ;-)

 

[Str8vision]

Yes, the stronger and more robust an extract is the smaller the percentage required to achieve a desired level of flavor.

 

[Str8vision]

After 10 ml of NET (0.45 ohms @ 45 watts) here's what my wick/coils look like. None of the NET used had been filtered through anything more than a coffee filter. I'll filter the extract next week (it's supposed to rain so I'll be stuck inside) and see if 1 micron filtration boosts performance.

 

[Bunnykiller]

10 ml??? and that clean? youre doing something right
mine looks like that after just 1 hit, from there on out it just keeps getting gunkier

 

[fogMann]

Just finished reading this thread and am making preparations to take the plunge. This thread has saved me months or years of experimentation on my own. My thanks to all contributors.

My first step is to identify the tobaccos I like best. I plan to do small batch hot extractions on a variety of tobaccos, using a half ounce of each. Then, use tasting results to zero in on a handful I want to pursue. I have a couple of questions I’d like help with.

1. Assuming average filtration losses, etc., what is the rough conversion for ounce of tobacco into finished, vapable eliquid. I’d like to determine what is the minimum amount of tobacco I can use to yield enough finished juice to sample (20-30ml). I would do a 140F/24 extraction followed by freeze filtering. I understand that as I use lesser amounts of tobacco, my filtration and other losses as a percentage will rise.

2. (I think) Str8vision suggests using at least 15% more alcohol by volume than tobacco for the steep. I put an ounce of Billy Bud (smells great) into an 8 ounce mason jar and it nearly filled the jar (didn’t pack it down at all). Q: Is it safe to assume roughly 7-8 ounces of alcohol per ounce of tobacco?

I anxious to get started but not holding my breath for answers. It’s 64F here in Chicago. I know I’ll be outside much of the weekend.

 

[Str8vision]

Just finished reading this thread and am making preparations to take the plunge.

Making your own NET can be a fun and rewarding endeavor. Over the years it has become an enjoyable hobby for me. I hope you have as much fun with it, best of luck to you.

I have a couple of questions I’d like help with.

1. Assuming average filtration losses, etc., what is the rough conversion for ounce of tobacco into finished, vapable eliquid. I’d like to determine what is the minimum amount of tobacco I can use to yield enough finished juice to sample (20-30ml). I would do a 140F/24 extraction followed by freeze filtering. I understand that as I use lesser amounts of tobacco, my filtration and other losses as a percentage will rise.

2. (I think) Str8vision suggests using at least 15% more alcohol by volume than tobacco for the steep. I put an ounce of Billy Bud (smells great) into an 8 ounce mason jar and it nearly filled the jar (didn’t pack it down at all). Q: Is it safe to assume roughly 7-8 ounces of alcohol per ounce of tobacco?

(1) Depending on the tobacco used, the skill/experience of the extractor, efficiency of the filtering process and type/size of filters used, an ounce of tobacco can yield enough extract to make (flavor) 300 to 500ml of NET. Small batch sizes do suffer a higher percentage of filtering losses but even so 1/4 ounce of tobacco can still yield enough extract to flavor 60ml of NET.

(2) To extract a full ounce of tobacco I use pint size canning jars. I use the half pint canning jars (jelly jars) for sampling "new" tobaccos and processing 1/2 ounce of tobacco or less. I want the unpacked tobacco to occupy no more than ~70% of the jar's volume. Pour in just enough ethanol to completely cover (submerse) the unpacked tobacco and then add 15% to 20% extra for absorption (I currently add at least 20% more). Depending on the tobacco in play (it does makes a difference) I'd guess it takes around 8oz of ethanol per ounce of tobacco.

 

[fogMann]

I'm forging through the 30+ tobaccos I rec'd last week (PGA extracts, 12 hours at 160F). I have 12 in the freezer now, some for as long as 4 days. I expect to do my first freeze filter tomorrow. I have a couple questions about that:

Str8Vision says use a coffee filter but later refined that to using a felt one. I don't have felt and not keen on ordering and waiting 3-4 more days. Does a coffee filter provide acceptable results? Should I consider doubling up on that? I don't really know what to expect; this sounds like a delicate step. I assume that the coagulated material could 'melt' quickly and re-contaminate the product. Some comments suggest doing the actual filtering in the freezer. However, from what I can see in the jars sitting the freezer, the liquid appears very thin, enough to pour right through the filter.

I plan to let the filtered product rest for a week or so before reducing it. Everything I've read here suggests reducing to perhaps 30%. Question: why not down to 10-20%. Does it become too thick to work with? Or, is that so condensed that ratios are inconvenient. It's doesn't seem like 120-150 mL of unreduced mix would contain more than 5-10 mL of pure tobacco essence. I certainly don't want something the consistency of Tobacco Absolute (tar), but getting it down to where they fit into 30ml bottles would be nice.

As an aside, I picked up one of those potato ricers that Str8Vision referenced in a prior post. Works great. I stick a coffee filter cut to size in the bottom since the holes at the bottom are quite large. I'm able to get a LOT of leverage to squeeze things almost dry. And, it avoids the mess of hand-squeezing a bag. I have an eyeglass mister that I use to spray Everclear all over it after I've dumped the 'grounds'. That does a partial cleanup plus salvages just a tiny bit more juice. The ricer isn't perfect. The piston/cylinder aren't a tight fit - I have to turn it over and let some liquid drip out the back side. Still, it works very well and was a good purchase. If you pick this up, a word of caution - the back side of the handle is very sharp (stamped aluminum). You could easily slice your hand if you aren't careful. I took a file to mine as soon as I got it.

VonShef Professional Stainless Steel Mash Potato Ricer Masher/ Fruit Press With Black Soft Touch Handles

At this point I'm not sure which takes more self-control. Waiting to sample the results or refraining from picking up pipe smoking. I never considered the latter until I got my first shipment last week. Hope the Marquee Blackhouse tastes as good as it smell.

 

[Str8vision]

......Str8Vision says use a coffee filter but later refined that to using a felt one. I don't have felt and not keen on ordering and waiting 3-4 more days. Does a coffee filter provide acceptable results? Should I consider doubling up on that? I don't really know what to expect; this sounds like a delicate step. I assume that the coagulated material could 'melt' quickly and re-contaminate the product. Some comments suggest doing the actual filtering in the freezer. However, from what I can see in the jars sitting the freezer, the liquid appears very thin, enough to pour right through the filter.

A coffee filter is ideal for this step, (freeze filtering), all you're really trying to accomplish is separating the undesirable gunk that precipitated out of solution and settled at the bottom of the container. Freeze filtering is best done inside the freezer. If the congealed muck warms it will liquefy and pass through the filter. The congealed state of the muck is temperature sensitive so I even chill the filtering apparatus prior to actual filtration.

Even at extremely low temperatures ethanol maintains a low viscosity and will flow through a coffee filter in a matter of seconds, however, the congealed muck is heavier than ethanol. It quickly settles to the bottom of the filter clogging its pores and restricting flow. Even if you're careful not to decant the muck when pouring some may find its way into the filter and impede flow. I've had some extracts (80ml) take 20 minutes to completely pass through a coffee filter. This is why I suggest pre-chilling the filtering apparatus and performing the filtration inside the freezer that way, no matter how long filtration takes, the muck remains congealed and is retained by the filter.

Because of it's fuzzy surface texture (which results in a much larger contact surface area) filter felt is harder to clog than coffee filters so flow is considerably quicker. Felt has a much higher particle retention rating than coffee filters (~5 micron -VS- 25-35 microns) and is washable/reusable. Problem is you -really- need a filter holder to use felt and washing it after use is a hassle. I have two different filter holders and lots of 1 micron felt but even so I normally use coffee filters for this step because they're disposable.

I plan to let the filtered product rest for a week or so before reducing it. Everything I've read here suggests reducing to perhaps 30%. Question: why not down to 10-20%. Does it become too thick to work with? Or, is that so condensed that ratios are inconvenient. It's doesn't seem like 120-150 mL of unreduced mix would contain more than 5-10 mL of pure tobacco essence. I certainly don't want something the consistency of Tobacco Absolute (tar), but getting it down to where they fit into 30ml bottles would be nice.

Extract doesn't really begin to get "thick" until its been reduced over 95%. Excessive reduction effects flavor, muddies it, this is why NET made from TA isn't as good as NET made from a regular unreduced extract. For our purposes reduction is meant to concentrate the extract in order to minimize the amount of ethanol in the final mixed NET. Too much ethanol effects flavor. Truth is you could just mix NET using unreduced extract and then allow the ethanol to evaporate off. Problem is once mixed with PG/VG it could take a very long time for that to occur. I've performed reductions ranging from 50% to 99% and for me 65 - 75% is more than ample. I don't perform final filtering until reduction is complete and the reduced extract has rested a week or two allowing time for any oils to coalesce. The more concentrated the extract the higher the filter loss. Once I've used reduced extract to mixed a NET I let it set open air for a few days allowing even more ethanol to evaporate off. I cover the container with a coffee filter held in place by a rubber band, this keeps dust and other contaminants out.

At this point I'm not sure which takes more self-control. Waiting to sample the results or refraining from picking up pipe smoking. I never considered the latter until I got my first shipment last week. Hope the Marquee Blackhouse tastes as good as it smell.

 

[fogMann]

Thanks Str8Vision. I just finished freeze-filtering my first two. Your advice is spot on. I used a coffee filter, the fluid was very thin, but the filter clogged quickly. I was able to keep much of the sediment in the jar, but enough got through to clog the filter. I did the filtering inside the freezer, so all is well. My first two batches are sitting comfortably on the shelf, taking a few days rest before I start the reduction. 12 more have entered the queue with 15 more aerating my office. Thanks very much for your guidance!

 

[Boxster]

Bump!
@Str8vision
I'm glad to hear that you are still experimenting.
Update on the Al Fauker Shisha that I extracted for a friend:
Processing (filtering & reduction) took much longer than usual.
I personally didn't care for the flavor "two apples", and thought it had a slight chemical taste, but the friend I made it for likes it, so that's what counts.
As far as gunk factor, I would say that it vaped cleaner than a PG extraction, but
not as clean as a usual PGA extraction. I attribute the longer processing times and higher gunk factor to the molasses in the tobacco.

 

[Opinionated]

Hot ethanol extraction produces a more robust, wider spectrum tobacco flavor. In addition to the brighter flavor notes that ethanol alone produces, hot processing also provides the deeper, richer notes cold processing lacks. I've only extracted four different tobacco blends using this method but all turned out quite exceptional, better than well aged PG, VG, and "cold" ethanol extractions of the same tobacco blends.

Prepare a hot bath with water temperature set at 160F (71C). Ethanol boils at 173F (78C), so make sure the process temperature stays below 170F (77C). I use a crock pot set on "warm" but a thermostatically controlled hot plate would work as long as it is accurate.

Place shredded tobacco in a glass container, pour in enough ethanol to completely cover the tobacco plus 5 - 10% extra for absorption. I use half pint canning jars (jelly jars), which work quite well. Lightly seal the container and place it in the hot water bath, add enough warm water to the bath to match the level of ethanol inside the container. Process for 12 hours, check periodically and add water to the bath if needed.

Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Dump the tobacco and ethanol into the coffee filter. Gather/fold the edges of the coffee filter together encapsulating the tobacco inside and gently squeeze to release/recover most of the ethanol. Discard the tobacco and filter. Lightly seal the glass container and place it in a freezer for 24 - 48 hours. Ethanol won't freeze, it just gets cold. The waxes and oils pulled from the tobacco will stratify at the bottom of the container.

Put a coffee filter inside a funnel and place the funnel in a clean glass container. Retrieve the ethanol from the freezer and gently pour it into the coffee filter while still cold. Don't squeeze the filter this time, just discard it. Now your extract can be filtered to whatever level you prefer, I currently use 1 micron borosilicate glass filter paper.

I use the ethanol extract at 7% as a flavoring but you could also transfer the flavor from the ethanol to either PG or VG. Do this by adding/mixing an equal amount of PG or VG to the ethanol, heat the uncovered mix to 150F and allow the ethanol to evaporate.

I have a question,my husband and I were discussing this process, and don't like the idea of "lightly sealing the lid".

I am considering using thicker amount of cheesecloth for the lid, and wondering if you have ever tried something more breathable, and if not why not?

 

[nostradadus]

Hot ethanol extraction

Never have actually thanked you for posting your extraction methods.

If it wasn't for your work and posts here on ECF, I would've never taken the plunge on producing my own NET liquids. Thanks for your all your hard work, knowledge and ECF posts!

 

[Str8vision]

I have a question,my husband and I were discussing this process, and don't like the idea of "lightly sealing the lid".

I am considering using thicker amount of cheesecloth for the lid, and wondering if you have ever tried something more breathable, and if not why not?

Hi Opinionated, welcome to the extraction forum

An excellent and perceptive question. For this method of extraction we're taking the extraction solvent (95% ethanol) very near its boiling point, at these temperatures ethanol will evaporate rapidly. Left uncovered for 12 hours @ 160F you'd lose a large percentage of your extraction solvent. Just like PG and VG, Ethanol is hygroscopic in that it can/will draw moisture directly from the surrounding air and absorb it. Once absorbed the water isn't easily removed. The hot water bath used for this method of extraction produces a lot of water vapor (humidity) and hot uncovered ethanol would quickly saturate itself replacing much of the evaporated ethanol with water. After 12 hours of processing, the extraction solvent that remains would contain a significant amount of water. Freeze filtering (a major benefit of using ethanol) would likely prove futile. Since ethanol evaporates considerably faster and at much lower temperatures than does water, during the reduction (concentration) step any remaining ethanol would evaporate off leaving just tobacco flavored water. The problem with water is that it promotes mold, bacteria, mildew and fungal growth whereas PG, VG and ethanol are all antifungal and bacteriostatic. A significant amount of water would also alter the flavor that's extracted and promote oxidation.

Canning jars/lids are designed for heat and some internal pressure. Just like when canning food if you lightly seat the ring on the lid it allows any excess pressure inside the jar to vent past the lid seal. When installing the lid ring, screw it on until it just makes contact with the lid, no more. I'm an old hand at canning garden tomatoes in a boiling hot water bath so wasn't apprehensive about heating ethanol/tobacco inside canning jars. For tobacco extraction, if you did inadvertently torque the lid down too tight and then boiled the ethanol inside it, the jar would eventually break spilling its contents in the hot water bath, it wouldn't explode.

Hot ethanol extraction isn't the easiest or least expensive extraction method available. There's also hot/cold PG and cold ethanol extraction methods to consider. My only complaint with using PG as the extraction solvent (hot or cold) is that it makes NET that's harder on wicks/coils. I prefer cold (room temperature) extractions for ultimate flavor but they take months to develop whereas heat assisted extractions take just days.

We're here to help, ask any questions you or your husband may have and we'll do our best to provide guidance.

 

[Str8vision]

Never have actually thanked you for posting your extraction methods.

If it wasn't for your work and posts here on ECF, I would've never taken the plunge on producing my own NET liquids. Thanks for your all your hard work, knowledge and ECF posts!

It's a team effort and I just enjoy being a part of that team. Together we can pave the road so other like minded people can easily obtain the security, economy, satisfaction and peace of mind that self-sufficiency provides. This will become vitally important to many at the close of 2018.

 

[happy valley]

If it wasn't for your work and posts here on ECF, I would've never taken the plunge on producing my own NET liquids. Thanks for your all your hard work, knowledge and ECF posts!

I'll second that! Moreover, a google search led me to this thread, and though one of the few I visit regularly, caused me to join this forum. It probably save me months of mucking around on my own and set my mind to ease about what the hell I was to do with a cellar full of tobacco! ;-)

 

[nostradadus]

It's a team effort and I just enjoy being a part of that team. Together we can pave the road so other like minded people can easily obtain the security, economy, satisfaction and peace of mind that self-sufficiency provides. This will become vitally important to many at the close of 2018.

No kidding there about the date stamp of '18!

In the words of Robert Herrick... "Gather ye rosebuds..." ....tobacco, nicotine, gear, information and/or whatever it is you need to make the long-haul.

 

[nostradadus]

Side by side with the results from a hot extraction I'd estimate they're at least 20% stronger in flavor intensity,

So... no heat... just pour ethanol over the tobacco and let it macerate for 6 months in a cool closet? More concentrated outcome, eh? Sounds simple enough!

You mean, I didn't have to buy that Cuisinart rice cooker at the Salvation Army thrift store for $10, in order to make an awesome NET? Dang it! Money down the drain!

 

[jonnydoe]

I have a question. Last summer i loved my homemade juices with stokkebye turkish 84 and yenidje from leafsonly. Since 2 months i dont like both. They are tasting very sweet like malt sugar. Is there a chemical reaction referring the tobacco after months ? I can not understand the taste changing of the two juices, i hate the taste now.

 

[Str8vision]

So... no heat... just pour ethanol over the tobacco and let it macerate for 6 months in a cool closet? More concentrated outcome, eh? Sounds simple enough!

You mean, I didn't have to buy that Cuisinart rice cooker at the Salvation Army thrift store for $10, in order to make an awesome NET? Dang it! Money down the drain!

I'd never give up my temp controlled slow cooker, it's too handy for processing experiments and sampling new tobaccos. Speaking of which;

My next round of extractions will be briefly heated to ~160F before subjecting them to a 4 to 6 month cold soak. There will be three exceptions, the first will be for a sample of Seattle Pipe Club's "Mississippi River Special Reserve", a quarter ounce of it will be processed @ 160F for 12 hours. Same for a quarter ounce sample of Lane's "Andullo Bold". If either suit me I'll process a much larger batch. The third exception will be for an experiment.