Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[nostradadus]

After 48 hours in the freezer the 9ml test mix of just ethanol/VG yielded absolutely nothing, it's crystal clear. This tells me that -all- of the visible precipitate (muck) in the 80/10/10 PGA/PG/VG extraction was leeched from the tobacco. Apparently, VG (even in very small amounts) pulls a lot of muck from the tobacco, far more than ethanol or PG.

"Defining and Refining the Art of NET Maceration"... you should write a book @Str8vision! I'd buy it!

I can't tell you how many times I've linked this ECF thread in communications with others who are interested in NET, but don't want the gunk factor which typically comes with NET liquids.

Thanks to ALL for sharing!

 

[aceswired]

Str8 is a NET legend.You should go into business - Str8 Tobacco Extracts....

 

[nostradadus]

Str8 Tobacco Extracts....

Awesome name, but, he might have to cut out the "tobacco" part in the name, as not to get a visit from the FDA gargoyle storm troopers!

 

[Str8vision]

I'm just a retired guy searching for the best flavor(s) and performance possible from a NET. NET the FDA can't regulate/control and states aren't able to tax. I can't think of a better venue for discussing/detailing this quest for knowledge than right here on ECF surrounded by like minded people. A Forum based thread like this serves as a live developmental log where readers can see the chronological sequence of events that lead to better methods/techniques and where they can even participate helping pave the road to improvements.

 

[nostradadus]

I can't think of a better venue for discussing/detailing this quest for knowledge than right here on ECF surrounded by like minded people.

I hear ya! Back in the day, before I even knew about ECF (mid 2014) ... I bought this book to get me started in the NET realm. It has a crude, but effective formula for producing NET; followed it to the letter until I hit ECF. Only then, did the clouds part.

 

[jonnydoe]

I am doing a little bit crazy experiment. I use warm water as solvens in a jar. If it works i will mix it with vg.

What will happens, what do you thing ? Very less flavour ?

 

[jonnydoe]

Have you ever heard of low nitrosamine tobaccos ?

 

[Str8vision]

I am doing a little bit crazy experiment. I use warm water as solvens in a jar. If it works i will mix it with vg.

What will happens, what do you thing ?

Water is a highly effective solvent and will extract flavor from tobacco quite effectively. The problem is that water grows/feeds everything from algae to mold, mildew to bacteria and it promotes oxidation. I wouldn't plan on storing a water based extract for very long at all. Instead, I'd "immediately" reduce (concentrate) it and quickly mix it into NET. Once mixed the bacteriostatic and antifungal properties of PG and/or VG should help protect/preserve the NET.

 

[jonnydoe]

Thanks Straigt. This is my plan. I want to heat it only for 24 hours and after filtering i will mix it with perhaps 90 percent of my vg-pg-nicotine base.

I want to see if there is any difference in tasting referring the ethanol extraction.

 

[Str8vision]

Thanks Straigt. This is my plan. I want to heat it only for 24 hours and after filtering i will mix it with perhaps 90 percent of my vg-pg-nicotine base.

I want to see if there is any difference in tasting referring the ethanol extraction.

It -will- taste different from a PG or ethanol based extract. You might like it or you might not but you'll never know unless you try it.

 

[jonnydoe]

The difference between pg and ethanol extract is very big. I dont like pg extractions without ethanol. But i dont know the taste of a water extraction. Do you ?

 

[jonnydoe]

I have read that nitrosamines are not good soluble in water. This was my reason.

 

[Str8vision]

The difference between pg and ethanol extract is very big. I dont like pg extractions without ethanol. But i dont know the taste of a water extraction. Do you ?

I experimented with distilled water extractions two or three years ago. The flavor it pulls from the tobacco is distinctly different. It didn't really suit my taste so I quit using it. Water can be a problematic solvent because you don't want too high a percentage of it in the mixed NET but once its been mixed with PG/VG it's almost impossible to evaporate off.

 

[aceswired]

On the other hand, water might be ideal if anyone ever wants to experiment with some fractional distillation.... or maybe ethanol would still be better.

 

[Str8vision]

On the other hand, water might be ideal if anyone ever wants to experiment with some fractional distillation.... or maybe ethanol would still be better.

Speaking of fractional distillation and my days experimenting with distilled water, here's an excerpt from one of my old posts from long ago;

The filtered extract used for this endeavor was 112ml of 70/30 VG/water. While VG is bacteriostatic it's not bactericidal in that it doesn't harm bacteria, just stops it from reproducing. Water on the other hand readily supports the growth of bacteria, mold and other microbial undesirables. I'm not sure at what point of dilution the bacteriostatic properties of VG
would be compromised so for my peace of mind when it comes to long term room temperature storage of extracts, reducing water content below 10% just seems prudent and was my goal. As VG and PG are both hygroscopic (readily absorbing water directly from the air), I store extracts in airtight containers to insure water content remains at acceptable/stable levels.

Fractional distillation is what made me consider this approach and when conducted in a vacuum it is considered vacuum distillation. Vacuum dehydration differs from vacuum distillation mainly in that the extracted water vapor is not condensed back into a liquid (distillate), separated or collected but is instead dispersed directly into the ambient atmosphere while still a gas. Same principle used in the industrial vacuum dehydration units used for oil purification. Lowering the atmospheric pressure lowers the boiling point of water to temperatures that will not damage or degrade the flavor contained in the solvent.

My vacuum source for this experiment was an old air (pneumatic), powered vacuum pump driven by compressed air. I didn't use my electric HVAC pump because the extracted water vapor would be flowing directly through the pump before being discharged into the ambient air. The 12vdc pump I use for filtering doesn't provide a high enough vacuum, tops out at around 20". A Faucet Aspirator Vacuum Pump might be ideal for this process, I may opt to get one for future use.

The first problem encountered was my heated magnetic stirrer wouldn't keep the temperature of the extract above 130F. I performed this operation in my shop building where the air compressor is located, it's not heated and was a cool 38F. I improvised by using an electric hot plate and pan of water, placing the pint canning jar I use for a vacuum chamber in the pan of hot water. Once up to temperature I applied vacuum. At ~26" of vacuum I began opening and closing the needle valve I use to introduce/cycle fresh air into the chamber. The extract never "boiled" but a light caramel colored foam developed on the surface of the extract with small bubbles appearing while
others popped. I would occasionally swirl the extract to "stir" it. After about 30 minutes I was finished, the amount of clear liquid around the discharge port of the vacuum pump was surprising, a small puddle. The aroma of tobacco filled the entire shop, brought back fond memories. Ended up with 81ml of extract so the process removed about 31ml of water, not all of it but better than I expected. It was a lot of fun, I enjoy tinkering around with extracts. Will report back on this extract's flavor after it has aged a bit.

 

[aceswired]

So you distilled out the water and kept what was behind? I'm thinking about a deep distillation, collecting the distillate in small jars, looking for fractions of flavor coming through. In other words, distilling for the flavor, not merely to remove solvent.

Imagine a NET that's clear and does not gunk. Is it possible? I'm thinking a 40 percent ethanol solvent (ethanol can combust at percent). Pipe dream?

 

[Str8vision]

All the flavor of a NET but with the clean performance of a synthetic... Pipe dream? Perhaps, but one that's certainly worth of chasing. Finding a way to separate/collect specific flavor molecules from an extract (without damaging/altering them) while leaving -everything else- behind would be the "Holy Grail" of NET making. Actually, it'd be the Holy Grail of arti-baccos granting them the genuine tobacco flavor they all currently lack. Is it possible? Likely not, seems that if it were a flavor chemist working for Hansen, TFA or Inawera would have done it long ago but you never know.

 

[jonnydoe]

I am vaping it at the moment. Its tasting not bad but i have only extracted it at 45°Celsius for about 12 hours. But i am astonished that the taste is much better than i have thought about. I am a little bit afraid reffering bacterias at the storage. I have 15% tobacco-water-extract in the juice and its very liquid. I like it.

 

[nostradadus]

Vaping an ethanol macerated Mac Baren Plumcake today.

Dessert anyone?

I would highly recommend this tobacco for those seeking a very pleasant after dinner, sweet tooth vape!

 

[Str8vision]

"Plumcake is made with rich, matured Virginias, earthy Burleys, a tangy Cavendish and a whisper of Latakia. Its enjoyable aroma comes from the measured enhancement of Jamaican Rum".

This blend sounds interesting. I've never extracted Plumcake, in fact I don't believe I've extracted any of Mac Baren's tobaccos. I'll put this one on my need to try list. I look forward to sampling new tobaccos again, it's been awhile. I'm currently enjoying some vintage "St James", over 2 years old this one has matured into a robust treat. And no gunk to boot, life's good!