Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[Bunnykiller]

assuming that just about all leafy plants produce sugars..... water will increase the sugars in solution
PGA has a very difficult time dissolving sugars, therefore less sugar in the extract

 

[Exchaner]

assuming that just about all leafy plants produce sugars..... water will increase the sugars in solution
PGA has a very difficult time dissolving sugars, therefore less sugar in the extract

Yes I know, but I was thinking of discarding the water after the soak. Dry the leaves and use Pga....

 

[Bagazo]

Hi everyone,
I tried this method in my smoking days without any loss of flavor.

Maybe it was because much of the flavor of smoke comes from burning.

Flavors are, for the most part, water soluble so I don't think you can do this with extractions and get positive results.

My extracts are room temperature 30 minute soaks and the water draws out a lot of flavor.

 

[dannyv45]

Just tried American Spirit extraction after a two week steep, and it came out amazingly well - just like the real thing, a nutty-sweetish tobacco. I did use a high % though - the equivalent of 5% of the 75% reduction. Still have three more extractions steeping. Altogether very very happy with how the extraction came out.

I must agree judging by the sample you sent me it came out great.

It peaked my interest in this process which I hope to be doing this weekend. I've read through this entire thread spoke extensively with exchaner and feel pretty confident to try this. I got all the materials and ready to go so wish me luck and I will post my questions and results here as I attempt this.

 

[Exchaner]

I must agree judging by the sample you sent me it came out great.

It peaked my interest in this process which I hope to be doing this weekend. I've read through this entire thread spoke extensively with exchaner and feel pretty confident to try this. I got all the materials and ready to go so wish me luck and I will post my questions and results here as I attempt this.

Happy to see you aboard Danny. Experienced and active as you are on this forum, I am sure we will all be learning a lot from you.

 

[Exchaner]

I just had an accident doing an extraction when I left the crockpot at the high setting for about 45 minutes. Came back and noticed the alcohol had reached the boiling point. Is that a cause for concern anyone?

 

[Str8vision]

Not unless you allow it to boil dry. I've simmered several extractions and rigorously boiled one, all came out just fine in the end.

 

[Exchaner]

Not unless you allow it to boil dry. I've simmered several extractions and rigorously boiled one, all came out just fine in the end.

Thanks. That puts me at ease. I was thinking I may have ruined the flavor.

 

[Str8vision]

The one I boiled lost about 50% of its ethanol right at the end of the 12 hour extraction, it must have been boiling for a good 30 minutes before I finally noticed it. That extract had outstanding flavor, boiling didn't seem to hurt it a bit.

 

[Exchaner]

It's just the same that I lost some of the alcohol to boiling/evaporation anyway. My extract is going to be that much more concentrated - less reduction needed. At any rate the remaining alcohol is just level with the tobacco.

 

[Exchaner]

My extracts came out considerably darker this time - apparently because of the boiling. It remains to be seen what effect it has on the intensity of the flavor. Although I used a much smaller filter this time, I still lost 50% of my alcohol. I attribute 10% of the loss due to boiling, but what about the remaining 40%? Shouldn't the loss be closer to 25% ?

 

[Str8vision]

You lose some solvent to the tobacco (that you can't squeeze out), and more to each filter that is used due to absorption. The amount sacrificed to "the filter gods" is directly proportional to the type and size of each filter used. I use one full sized coffee filter when separating the tobacco from solvent (extract), and another coffee filter that is trimmed down for the freeze filtering step. My final filtering stage uses 5.5 cm glass microfiber filter that doesn't absorb much of the extract. I typically lose around 25% of the ethanol from start to finish.

 

[Exchaner]

I typically lose around 25% of the ethanol from start to finish.

I am scratching my head trying to figure out what I am doing wrong losing 50% just after the first filtering alone. Too loose a cap in the crockpot maybe? Too absorbent a tobacco? The coffee filter I used was really tiny - enough to fit inside a tea strainer.

 

[Str8vision]

Is your tobacco and solvent sealed inside a glass container (i.e a canning jar), during the heated extraction? I use half pint canning jars with matching lids/rings. I tighten the lid down "lightly" just like when canning in a hot water bath so that even though the jar is sealed any excess pressure buildup (like when I boiled the one extract), can still force its way past the lid seal. Close to it's boiling point, If the container isn't adequately sealed the hot ethanol can evaporate pretty fast.

After extraction, when separating the tobacco and solvent, how are you recovering solvent contained in the highly saturated tobacco? After the loose solvent has passed through the coffee filter, I gather the edges of the filter together encasing the saturated tobacco inside. I then gently squeeze the tobacco, gradually increasing pressure till I've recovered all the solvent I can without rupturing the filter. Saturated tobacco holds around 30 - 40% of the total solvent used, of that I'm able to recover perhaps 75%. In my case, what I don't/can't recover from the tobacco accounts for the majority of the overall loss.

That's really the only things I can think of.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I use a portion of nylons ( the type that go on legs) to place the paper filter in when I do the squeeze ... helps keep the paper from splitting.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I have found that for maximum PGA retention while steeping, the max temp I go to is 150F...

 

[Bunnykiller]

The one I boiled lost about 50% of its ethanol right at the end of the 12 hour extraction, it must have been boiling for a good 30 minutes before I finally noticed it. That extract had outstanding flavor, boiling didn't seem to hurt it a bit.

what tobacco were you using?? I had a raspberry pipe tobacco that went above 170 and turned out bitter and grassy, but the next time I kept it under 150 and was wonderful...

 

[Exchaner]

Hmmm ... I need to go out and buy some nylon stockings ....

As for squeezing the saturated tobacco, it hardly yielded any liquid. Seemed bone dry after I poured out the alcohol. Squeezed the tobacco with a tea spoon inside the bottle, and nothing came out... Perhaps that is the nature of the particular tobacco I am using - American Spirit Perique Blend. I will be sending a portion to Danny next week and see if his results are any different.

Next time I will try the nylon method. Thanks Bunny, good idea.

 

[Str8vision]

what tobacco were you using?? I had a raspberry pipe tobacco that went above 170 and turned out bitter and grassy, but the next time I kept it under 150 and was wonderful...

The boiling occurred during an extraction of one of my favorites, Sutliff "Voodoo Queen", an English style blend of Burley, Latakia, Perique and Virginia tobaccos. The flavor produced by that extract was intense, crisp and bold one of the best iterations of that tobacco to date, go figure. Couldn't have boiled for more than 30 minutes before I caught it, but in that time I lost around 50% of the solvent ~30ml. Good thing the canning jar allowed the pressure to vent otherwise I could have had a mess in the crockpot.
I suspect that flavored aromatics might be less forgiving when it comes to heat so for the ones I've ordered (which should arrive in today's mail), I'm working on a new -two stage- extraction process, a hybrid of this method.

Good idea using pantyhose to reinforce the coffee filter. Usr posted a similar idea a while back which led me to consider nut milk strainer bags like this http://www.amazon.com/Nut-Milk-Bag-...pebp=1447439014381&perid=1SBKCW9DF4JX9ZV5CGMD It's like a jelly strainer bag but heavier, pantyhose on steroids! I've got a jelly strainer bag but fear the wife's retribution should I use it for my extracts.

 

[gt_1955]

My last extraction did the same thing ... boiled off all the PGA I thought I'd give it a go using a crockpot on low rather than my temp controlled Ultrasonic cleaner, and misjudged it. ********, added some more PGA and then did the 12 hour, 71C heat cycle in the UC. Added 30ml PG, then evaporated the PGA off.

This produced a stronger extraction IMO, whereby I only use 1% or so as my flavour base. Of course, I am open to the suggestion that my taste has changed, and don't need it any stronger