Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol

[jonnydoe]

You have written, that you prefer "200 PROOF FOOD GRADE AND 190 PROOF ORGANIC ETHYL ALCOHOL".
Sorry, i am german and i have problems to understand, what ethanol i have to buy. I only know 95% vol. alcohol or ethanol and i dont understand what 190 or 200 could be.

Please, can you give me a link to amazon product or a european vendor ?

 

[Bunnykiller]

proof is a rating for alcohol... basically its 2 X the percentage...
so if a liquid contains 80% alcohol its considered 160 proof
200 proof is 100% alcohol... and usually hard to find... and not cheap.

I use 190 proof ( Everclear sold in the US) for extracting.

 

[Bunnykiller]

got bored today and decided to take all of my "useless" extractions and throw them all into 1 batch and do another reduction on them. As the extract continually continues to reduce in volume, there is an oil film redeveloping on the surface... then it hit me, the PGA keeps the oil in solution and as it slowly evaps off it releases the oils which dont blend well with the remaining water...
I noticed this previously with other extractions but this time around its very "noticeable"

just wondering how much "oil" can be removed from an extract just by evaporating 90%+ of the PGA...

 

[jonnydoe]

It have to be expensive ethyl alcohol or is ethanol or bio ethanol okay ?

 

[dannyv45]

Getting ready to try this I have a couple of questions.

1. On low setting my crockpot is right at 160F. Is there any benefit or drawback to letting it heat for lets say 18 hours making sure I monitor the alcohol level to make sure it does not over evaporate.

After filtering when I evaporate out the Alcohol (60 - 70%) Should I replace that lost amount with PG or use as is.

 

[Str8vision]

You have written, that you prefer "200 PROOF FOOD GRADE AND 190 PROOF ORGANIC ETHYL ALCOHOL".
Sorry, i am german and i have problems to understand, what ethanol i have to buy. I only know 95% vol. alcohol or ethanol and i dont understand what 190 or 200 could be.

Please, can you give me a link to amazon product or a european vendor ?

Ethyl alcohol, ethanol, pure grain alcohol, grain alcohol are the same thing. Go to your local liquor store and see if they carry 190 proof "Pure Grain Alcohol", not all countries allow its sale. 190 proof = 95% ethyl alcohol (ethanol),and 5% water.

It have to be expensive ethyl alcohol or is ethanol or bio ethanol okay ?

Stick with the expensive ethyl alcohol like what is available at the liquor store. Most governments require that any form of ethyl alcohol not intended (and taxed), for human consumption be -denatured- with a poison. Don't use denatured alcohol for this method of extraction.

 

[Str8vision]

Getting ready to try this I have one question.

On low setting my crockpot is right at 160F. Is there any benefit or drawback to letting it heat for lets say 18 hours making sure I monitor the alcohol level to make sure it does not over evaporate.

160F is ok but I wouldn't let it soak for 18 hours, 12 is better.

 

[dannyv45]

160F is ok but I wouldn't let it soak for 18 hours, 12 is better.

Thank you will do 12 then.

After filtering when I evaporate out the Alcohol (60 - 70%) Should I replace that lost amount with PG or use as is. I would think using it as is would be more concentrated.

 

[Str8vision]

You can reduce it by 60 to 90% and use it like any other concentrated flavoring, or, after the reduction you can transfer the flavor into PG or VG and finish evaporating the ethanol off. Some people are sensitive to the presence of alcohol and for those who are I would recommend transferring the flavor.

If transferring the flavor into PG or VG you can keep it concentrated. Example: Lets say that after the final filtering of an ethanol based extraction you have 50ml of extract. Evaporate 38ml of the ethanol off (a 75% reduction), and you would have 12ml of concentrated extract. You can then add 12ml of PG or VG, mix well, and evaporate most of the remaining ethanol off. You would then have ~12ml of concentrated tobacco extract in a PG or VG base. Any level of concentration can be achieved in this manner, it's one of the benefits of using ethanol as the extraction solvent.

 

[jonnydoe]

Ethyl alcohol, ethanol, pure grain alcohol, grain alcohol are the same thing. Go to your local liquor store and see if they carry 190 proof "Pure Grain Alcohol", not all countries allow its sale. 190 proof = 95% ethyl alcohol (ethanol),and 5% water

Thanks. I have found an alcohol made for drinking with 96% Vol. for 28 Euro per liter. I think its okay.

 

[jonnydoe]

I like the heat extracted sun curred turkish and also the burley from net.com very much. Do you have tried a tobacco leaf or leafs that are similar to the tastes.

 

[dannyv45]

You can reduce it by 60 to 90% and use it like any other concentrated flavoring, or, after the reduction you can transfer the flavor into PG or VG and finish evaporating the ethanol off. Some people are sensitive to the presence of alcohol and for those who are I would recommend transferring the flavor.

If transferring the flavor into PG or VG you can keep it concentrated. Example: Lets say that after the final filtering of an ethanol based extraction you have 50ml of extract. Evaporate 38ml of the ethanol off (a 75% reduction), and you would have 12ml of concentrated extract. You can then add 12ml of PG or VG, mix well, and evaporate most of the remaining ethanol off. You would then have ~12ml of concentrated tobacco extract in a PG or VG base. Any level of concentration can be achieved in this manner, it's one of the benefits of using ethanol as the extraction solvent.

Thank you, you explained this perfectly. After lets say a 75% reduction I would add an equal amount of PG to what ever amount of extract is left, then reduce the remaining alcohol off until I get back to the original amount of extract I had before adding PG. For instance I reduiced to 75% and now have 10 ml's extract. Add 10mls PG then continue to reduce down to approx 10ml evaporating the remaining alcohol.

 

[Str8vision]

I like the heat extracted sun curred turkish and also the burley from net.com very much. Do you have tried a tobacco leaf or leafs that are similar to the tastes.

Sorry but I'm not sure which tobaccos Clay used to make those particular NETs and haven't tried either of them so don't know what flavor they have.

 

[Str8vision]

Thank you, you explained this perfectly. After lets say a 75% reduction I would add an equal amount of PG to what ever amount of extract is left, then reduce the remaining alcohol off until I get back to the original amount of extract I had before adding PG. For instance I reduiced to 75% and now have 10 ml's extract. Add 10mls PG then continue to reduce down to approx 10ml evaporating the remaining alcohol.

Yep. Be aware that once you've mixed the remaining ethanol with PG or VG it becomes more difficult to evaporate. Resist the temptation to use higher temperatures to speed things up, some flavor molecules are heat sensitive and can be damaged/altered by excessive heat. I never reduce an extract at temperatures higher than used for the extraction process for that very reason.

EDIT: Also, if you do transfer the flavor into PG or VG (especially VG), you'll need to age the extract so that the flavor has time to "meld" into the new base. The longer it ages the better it gets.

 

[jonnydoe]

Sorry but I'm not sure which tobaccos Clay used to make those particular NETs and haven't tried either of them so don't know what flavor they have.

If i do all the things from your tutorial right. Do you thing i am able to make a net with the same quality as Clay or other very good vendors do ? Sorry, i am a beginner and i havent tried making a net till yet. You havent tried any of Clays nets ? Why ? It has to be very interesting for you to look how good your nets are referring to Clays. Or didnt i understand you the right way because of my bad english ?

 

[Str8vision]

If i do all the things from your tutorial right. Do you thing i am able to make a net with the same quality as Clay do ? Sorry, i am a beginner and i havent tried making a net till yet.

This method is a bit advanced for someone just starting out but I don't see why you couldn't do it. The first post in this thread has most of the information needed to get started but forgets to mention reducing the finished extract in order to concentrate it. Reduction is discussed later in the thread. Once you master the art of extraction and learn how to properly mix extract into a ready-to-vape juice, I believe you'll find the NET you can make is better and cleaner than any you can buy at any price point. There is a learning curve to home extraction that only hands-on experience/practice can overcome.

 

[Exchaner]

For instance I reduiced to 75% and now have 10 ml's extract. Add 10mls PG then continue to reduce down to approx 10ml evaporating the remaining alcohol.

You might have a hard time reducing 20 ml of pg/alcohol mix back to 10 ml. But perhaps it can be done with proper heat. You might consider mixing 10 ml of alcohol extract with a lesser amount of pg - 5 ml for example. Probably easier to evaporate the alcohol that way. You can then add whatever amount of pg afterwards. I personally keep my extracts in alcohol form; concentrated enough that I only need 5% in my final mix.

 

[Str8vision]

Same here Exchaner, could be my taste buds are shot but I really don't taste the alcohol and mix some extracts up to 7%. That's why I stopped transferring the flavor.

 

[Exchaner]

Besides which, alcohol adds a bit or warmth to the vape anyway Reminds me of my smoking days when I would have a drink with my cigarettes.

 

[Str8vision]

Received my P&C order today (a day late), and will experiment with a new variation of this extraction method. Going to extract five different tobaccos using a two stage extraction process. First I'll soak all five at room temperature and under a moderate vacuum for 48 hours. When the 48 hours are up I'll release the vacuum and heat the macerated tobaccos to 145F for 12 hours. Filtering steps will remain unchanged from the original method. My goal is to achieve the same robust flavor the original method provides but with a reduced processing temperature for extracting certain flavored aromatic tobaccos that are heat sensitive. Might be a total waste of time, but you never know till you've tried.