I am thinking that its important to filter the extract good but i dont believe that we can really kill the gunk with filtering. I think that gunk is caramelized sugar and nobody can find a perfect solution for it by filtering. The step of freezing helps a little bit to separate glucose but not all sugars.
Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol
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I do the same with this big filter but last time i havent filtered my extracts. Only one time after the reducing in my oven. I think its a good idea, because i have only to filter 20-30 ml extract instead of perhaps 100 ml before the reducing and i am sure not having any solids from the reducing in my ready extract. Filtering at the end is best way for me.
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How much are you losing in the filter? 2 to 4ml? That's over a 10% loss versus a ~2% loss when filtering 100ml. Plus your extract will filter faster when it is suspended in alcohol. Compared to a PG extraction, a alcohol extraction is relatively fast.
I agree jonny. Even extracts filtered at 1.5 um still gunk up. Clarity is improved but the gunk factor is still there.
Yeah I found that out also after starting pga extracts, I had these filters before I started doing ethanol extracts. Ethanol filters very quick. I've only done about 5 so I'm still learning the process. Not sure where @Str8vision has been. But he had posted on another process he was working on, maybe.....?
I'm still around but with the unseasonably warm weather (70's in February!) have been busy outside working on my aging house and property. I've been working off a 30' extension ladder all day and am tuckered out plus it has started raining so... tonight I will sit, drink some coffee and post.
I experimented with many different filtering methods/variations and for ethanol based extractions I've settled on this for enhanced oil reduction;
My last fifteen extractions were all performed at lower temperatures for longer durations. My goal is to keep the processing temperature well below 150F to preserve flavor. I personally like the results some of these experiments yielded but not all. The last batch was processed at ~140F for 72 hours and produced very promising results. Within that batch were two of the best cigar extractions to date, a Tatiana Vanilla and Acid Blondie.
I experimented with many different filtering methods/variations and for ethanol based extractions I've settled on this for enhanced oil reduction;
- Once the flavor extraction is complete I -currently- use a nylon nut bag for separating the tobacco from solvent. The nylon bag lets more particles through than would a coffee filter but absorbs less extract and is considerably stronger, better suited for squeezing. Once separated, I seal the extract and place it in the freezer. I've also been eyeing this; Amazon.com: VonShef Professional Stainless Steel Mash Potato Ricer Masher/ Fruit Press With Black Soft Touch Handles: Kitchen & Dining
- After sitting in the freezer (-10F) for a couple of days, I filter the congealed muck that drops out of solution using a coffee filter, a canning funnel and a clean canning jar. I filter the cold extract -inside- the freezer and 100ml generally takes around 15 minutes. I'm careful not to pour any more congealed muck into the filter than is necessary.
- *Once freeze filtering is complete I reduce the extract by around 70%. I do this at room temperature using a fan to blow air across the top of the open container(s). Using 1/2 pint canning jars, 100ml of extract reduces down to 30ml in about 6-8 hours. When using a wide shallow ceramic or pyrex container (like a small soup or custard bowl) the same reduction takes half the time but is more difficult to gauge. This winter I used a small fan forced electric heater to provide warm, dry air flow, it's actually a bit quicker. In the past I used a convection (air circulating) oven set <150F and the reduction was quite rapid, took just minutes once the extract reached temperature. Perhaps a little too fast considering I ruined a couple of extracts by accidentally reducing them till bone dry...
- *Once its been reduced I seal the extract and let it sit, at room temperature, undisturbed, for several days. If present, any oil that dropped out of solution during (because of) reduction will slowly coalesce into a skim or form globules.
- *Finally, after sitting for a few days allowing oil to coalesce, I place the sealed extract back in the freezer for an hour or two. Once cold, and while still in the freezer, I filter it through a 5.5cm 1 micron glass filter. Cold coalesced oils stick to the filter (and filter holder) tenaciously. I then re-seal the filtered extract and allow it to reach room temperature.
- If I'm going to leave it as an alcohol based extract I simply bottle it. If I'm going to transfer the flavor into PG or VG I do that first and then bottle it.
My last fifteen extractions were all performed at lower temperatures for longer durations. My goal is to keep the processing temperature well below 150F to preserve flavor. I personally like the results some of these experiments yielded but not all. The last batch was processed at ~140F for 72 hours and produced very promising results. Within that batch were two of the best cigar extractions to date, a Tatiana Vanilla and Acid Blondie.
Interesting new experiments. Str8 is back !
I am thinking that the problem of the hot ethanol extraction is the loosing of flavour by reducing the ethanol.
I have made a stokkebye turkish pipe extract by hot ethanol and referring to this by your tutorial too the same tobacco with pg for 96 hour at 130 F. Both are good at 10 percent in the juice and the juice have the same colour, but i have made about 80 ml pg extract and only 25 ml ethanol extract from the same weight of tobacco. The problem is the loosing of flavours by reducing the ethanol at 130 F during 6 hours.
Is it better at your cold reducing ?
I am thinking that the problem of the hot ethanol extraction is the loosing of flavour by reducing the ethanol.
I have made a stokkebye turkish pipe extract by hot ethanol and referring to this by your tutorial too the same tobacco with pg for 96 hour at 130 F. Both are good at 10 percent in the juice and the juice have the same colour, but i have made about 80 ml pg extract and only 25 ml ethanol extract from the same weight of tobacco. The problem is the loosing of flavours by reducing the ethanol at 130 F during 6 hours.
Is it better at your cold reducing ?
The flavor molecules we extract from tobacco are fragile and heat sensitive. Whenever possible I prefer using the lowest possible heat to obtain desired results which is why I continue to experiment. Personally and dependent on the tobacco in play, when using ethanol as the solvent I've found specific levels/duration of heat are necessary to obtain certain flavor attributes -during- the extraction. Not so for the reduction process, heating the extract only serves to expedite evaporation. Excess temperature can -certainly- damage/alter or mute flavor, a lesson I learned long ago when experimenting with hot PG extractions >180F. For PG and or VG based extractions I prefer the flavor obtained from a long term room temperature (cold) extraction over heat assisted. YMMV
I havent had the chance to absolutely confirm this yet, but im beginning to theorize that maybe my problem of un-palatable smokiness MIGHT be Black Cavendish itself.
In the meantime since last posting, I bought some of Naturally Extracted Tobacco's Black Cavendish eliquid. I put it into the same atomizer as my homemade extract and am getting the same smokiness.
Could it be that the increased sugars in the creation process for black cavendish is making the wick clog up and translate as smokiness flavor, or is it just a burnt wick?
I must change the wick and try the bought flavor to determine truth from confusion, but im just suspicious because both versions of the liquid taste identical to me so far. Really strange. I wonder if I might get better results with cigar extractions than cavendish...
In the meantime since last posting, I bought some of Naturally Extracted Tobacco's Black Cavendish eliquid. I put it into the same atomizer as my homemade extract and am getting the same smokiness.
Could it be that the increased sugars in the creation process for black cavendish is making the wick clog up and translate as smokiness flavor, or is it just a burnt wick?
I must change the wick and try the bought flavor to determine truth from confusion, but im just suspicious because both versions of the liquid taste identical to me so far. Really strange. I wonder if I might get better results with cigar extractions than cavendish...
I have only done a cold reduction so I can't compare a cold vs heat reduction, but I doubt a heat reduction would cause a loss of flavor.
I can compare a PG vs PGA extraction, since I have done both with the same tobacco.
The PGA extraction is cleaner but you lose some of the flavor spectrum (profile) of a PG extraction. With PGA it seems I get the high & mid notes but lose some or most of the bass notes.
I have only done cold extractions, so don't I know if this is a heat vs cold result.
I recently started an experiment:
I did a regular PGA extraction (American Spirit Perique) and took the used tobacco and did a PG extraction.
The result was a juice that was almost all base notes. It tasted like a strong VA/PER blend, or more accurately a PER/va blend.
The surprising thing is that the resulting extract was much darker than either a PGA or PG extraction of the same tobacco. My hope is to try different mixing percentages of the two extracts that still results in a relatively clean, but with a complete spectrum extract.
It may turn out to be a bust, but that's what experiments are for.
I can compare a PG vs PGA extraction, since I have done both with the same tobacco.
The PGA extraction is cleaner but you lose some of the flavor spectrum (profile) of a PG extraction. With PGA it seems I get the high & mid notes but lose some or most of the bass notes.
I have only done cold extractions, so don't I know if this is a heat vs cold result.
I recently started an experiment:
I did a regular PGA extraction (American Spirit Perique) and took the used tobacco and did a PG extraction.
The result was a juice that was almost all base notes. It tasted like a strong VA/PER blend, or more accurately a PER/va blend.
The surprising thing is that the resulting extract was much darker than either a PGA or PG extraction of the same tobacco. My hope is to try different mixing percentages of the two extracts that still results in a relatively clean, but with a complete spectrum extract.
It may turn out to be a bust, but that's what experiments are for.
Black Cavendish is a cased and fermented tobacco. I find fermented tobaccos to be generally gunkier than non-fermented tobaccos.
That's along the lines I was thinking, yeah. I put the new bought BC into the same tank as the problematic smoky-tasting problem homegrown BC, but only because I had JUST CHANGED OUT THE WICK, and looked at it compared to my previous wicks with it, and it was only slightly grey, compared to the black wick that I had before, so I assumed it was still clean enough to give me good flavor, and I don't want to use up all my wicks.
I suppose to solve this once and for all, I'm going to HAVE to try a new wick, but I'm procrastinating at the moment with other issues
Time will tell....
Okay: changed the wick and the new bought Black Cav seems to vape fine with no smokiness, (which surprises me, actually, because I looked at the wick and it was still clean-looking and didn't seem to be the culprit). So next I'll try testing the original homemade black cav with the same unburnt wick and see if my problem is completely solved. (I'm gunna feel slightly embarrassed if it was just a wick problem! lol )
I'd agree with this...My B/Cav extraction ( cold PG ), is very sweet & very gunky!
Hot ethanol with freezing is good to reduce some sugars. What will happens with an ready reduced hot ethanol extract (without pg) by freezing ? More sugar reducing ? I mean two steps of reducing with freezing. First the not and than the reduced extract.
I will have a try but i have no ethanol at the moment. Do you have tried this before ?
I will have a try but i have no ethanol at the moment. Do you have tried this before ?
no no you cant vape water ! lol
schnaps as long it can be made somewhere close to 95%
is going to be a vacuum set up. or it might work for pga recovering . this coil is probably overkill .quarter inch copper wound on a Morton salt container and fits nicely into a 4 inch drain pipe , but it is easy to wind with out cinking .
the boiler is like str8 s idea to use mason jars . and heated with a temp controlled (ink bird temp controller )
which will do the extraction and later as a heat source for the boiler. not using the lids from mason jars , cutting some double sided pc board so I can solder the in out tubing. I gess I am to cheep to buy fittings .
my vacuum source is made from a fridge compressor .
also working on a adjustable vac switch to regulate the amount of vacuum so I can control the boiling point .
wish me luck !
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