tube juice feeding???

[Scottbee]

In no way to I want to thwart your development process and I salute you for going down this path. Part of me wants to share some insight.. and another part wants to shut the heck up... because maybe you'll stumble upon something that I missed and come up with a better mousetrap. So instead of saying "don't do this..." I'll just give some opinions.. OK?

As has already been noted, any liquid that is taken from the bottom reservoir needs to be replaced by "make-up air" (the only exception to this would be if your reservoir had a pliable membrane like an air/water pressure tank). So it must be vented. At some level you can try to "throttle" or meter the orifice that the makeup air comes through in an effort to regulate the overall liquid delivery.... but I personally don't think that works worth a crap. It never worked well on carburetors, and it doesn't work well here IMHO.

At some level, regulating the liquid delivery rate is a must. And it also needs to be correlated to the amount of air that is taken in during the "drag" (inhale). After that regulation is established, some method for varying that "throttling" will also be required in order to compensate for e-liquid viscosity, "consumption rate" (not all liquids vaporize at the same "rate"), and coil wattage. My experience has been that if you get a system all "dialed-in", and then raise or lower the viscosity of the liquid just a little bit, everything goes to hell (assuming small diameter feed tubing). If also noted that if I raise the coil wattage (LR vs standard atty for example) the liquid consumption rate changes dramatically. Making the compensation mechanism "automatic" would certainly be ideal.... but in the near-term, just having adjustments that are ergonomic and user-friendly would be a nice touch.

Anyway.. I could probably rattle on for many more paragraphs, but this is probably a good place to stop.

 

[misterD]

i surely appreciate anything you have to say, scotbee. thanx!
i noticed that if i screw the atomizer all the way in into the threads im sucking nothing. theres no draw. so if i unscrew a lil bit than it works. theres the airflow that can be regulated

 

[misterD]

I need to re-read and then I will def try this. May need your help MisterD.

im glad if i can help! and make it better, girl!

 

[asdaq]

MisterD glad to do what I can here, but you are an even bigger help to me. I would love to jump in and do some of this myself, but cant just now. Lack of materials on hand and a big trip coming up on Tuesday-- too much on my plate. I've started 2 other mods but they wont get finished in time, but that's ok.

Scottbee, you are very gracious with your stance and any advice you'd like to share is very appreciated indeed. Your work helped sway me to choose the eGo in the very beginning and patiently I've waited to see 'official' adoption, but the only changes coming are a 750 mAh batt later this month. wow. And your developments have been out nearly 4 months now. Just to be clear, many thanks to you! If it seems I'm noticing too much from your work, it is in homage, and I just look close.

Some ideas. It looks like the 510 connector is flush with the fob cap, so the 4 notches are mostly sealed when the atty is tightened down, thus no draw and a vacuum exists. the silicone insulator in the connector flexes a bit, so when you unscrew a bit the side holes get airflow sooner than the silicone unflexes so it doesn't seem so efficient to just have air enter around the tubing. sort of like drinking from a straw without closing one's lips around the straw.

Also, Scottbee's filling port provides a nice big hole for air, largely restricted be closing the custom cone. A relatively but not too snug tube (the tank) inside the cone would let some air in even when closed. Given the surface tension of juice, it wouldn't really exit this port all on its own for no reason (maybe if you blew hard enough into the system). If the port is near the top of the tank, and it is usually placed upright the physics should be favorable. Any gradual seepage would be taken care of with the next draw.

Oh and using a MV needle tipped 10ml bottle looks handy for filling too.

MisterD, could you take a close up pic of the fob cap/ connector/ feed tube maybe?

 

[misterD]

MisterD, could you take a close up pic of the fob cap/ connector/ feed tube maybe?

i can do that when i get home. im at work now! and dont know how good of a picture its gonna be but i'll do my best!

 

[Scottbee]

Also, Scottbee's filling port provides a nice big hole for air, largely restricted be closing the custom cone. A relatively but not too snug tube (the tank) inside the cone would let some air in even when closed. Given the surface tension of juice, it wouldn't really exit this port all on its own for no reason (maybe if you blew hard enough into the system). If the port is near the top of the tank, and it is usually placed upright the physics should be favorable. Any gradual seepage would be taken care of with the next draw.

You're very observant... and you've appropriately gathered quite a bit. Yes, the filler port is a "big ole stompin' hole" and it will let a lot of air in.. in the "fully open" position. Now.. as you rotate the outer cone, you begin to get a "total eclipse of the moon". The open hole becomes a crescent.. and of course you can control the size of that crescent. But as I mentioned, attempting to regulate the e-liquid flow (in a venturi or vacuum draw system) by throttling the makeup air is fraught with peril ( ). It really doesn't work that well. That being said.. you can vape with the hole partially open (crescent) for a while.. until the atty ultimately exhibits a slight "flood" condition.... then close the hole completely and "vape it back down".. and then repeat. This works better than one might initially think, and it's not too different from a bottle-style feeder.. where you have to squeeze the bottle at some interval.

But that's still not Nirvana. What you really want is variable metering on the feed tube (think carburetor fixed jetting and/or a needle valve) so you can somewhat precisely dial in the feed rate to the atomizer, air flow characteristics, fluid viscosity, and system power. Once you get it set... it vapes pretty consistently. That is.. until you change the atomizer style, system power, or e-liquid.

 

[5cardstud]

Sorry, wrong post.

 

[Scottbee]

Here's a quick little 2D sketch that I did back in the early development of the Super TorneGo. It may stimulate some thought. If nothing else, it gives us a common diagram to reference.

 

[misterD]

wow! thank you, mr.scottbee! here are the pictures, asdaq!
i posted a link on previous post for the connectors and the tubing im using.

 

[beast775]

thanks for the diagram scottbee,its excellent.im trying to picture the working atty cart combo,and i have a question.does the air intake leach into your main feed tube,venturi in any way?i hope im not vague in my question but i feel vague/i dont think im seeing something per the diagram.dang it.ha

 

[beast775]

misterD,i realized that jb welds thickness really makes drying time longer,i just put about 1/16 on a bicycle handlebar bolt 2 days ago and cut through it tonight.the insides were still not dry.it wasnt very thick.im thinking 4-6 days possibly for the internal mass to harden.

 

[misterD]

i hope so, beast! i cant wait to put this thing to a vaping test as soon as possible to see if needs some more work.

 

[asdaq]

WOW indeed! Thanks Scottbee, common reference helps much, I wish our time differences weren't so great, they won't be soon

I was going with air getting in still "enough" through the closed port, adjustability we get through tightening/ backing off the atty.

Something else but I just woke up. Probably spring related too-- I feel obsessed with the things

MisterD excellent pics, I've got something to mill over for the next hour or 2

 

[Scottbee]

Beast,

To help with the visualization.. here is a quick sketch of a standard Atty/Cart combo (either poly-filled or ZFM). This will help you figure out what my common elements are:

 

[Scottbee]

And another sketch from the same group... this is just a the standard atty:

 

[asdaq]

This looks quite nice indeed. I particularly like the looks of it on a vapestack-like device, so much that having already cut a 100mm length of 25mm OD tubing and shaped the ends, I'm going to ditch that plan. It was to house a 18350 and a 3ml bottle, but the bottle is so much smaller that it seemed wrong. There would be room for a booster behind the bottle, but the whole thing lost it's appeal.

Now I'm thinking something much shorter for that batt, and something similar to this assembly on the top, but later...must find parts...

Or, the little fob (reservoir) on top of the big fob (battery) would be good too. adding a booster module in between would be a little too ISS looking and too much stress on the connectors.

Ok, back on track here. the fob and the cone have some similarities perhaps, from the fob packaging, they state the rubber ring makes it waterproof, so without, it should let some air into the system. Maybe not well, so it would need to be loosened or have the threads filed down a touch to let air pass through.

With the cone, as per diagram, rotating is the adjustment factor, but with the fob and flush connector mounting, the atty rotating is the adjustment, regulating the suction.

Also it seems advantageous to have the needle loose in the atty, both to get the carb effect, and to not rotate the positive connection and the wiring inside the atty. If juice gets up into the connector, it's just a quick slurp away from being right around the coil. So the tube doesn't need to protrude much. I've messed up two atties by sanding down a brass tube to clear through the connector, but missing that the atty hole was smaller. This also got me to run the tube much lower, just in case. It still feeds fine.

 

[beast775]

thanks scottbee.i was misreading the original diagram,it makes perfect sense now.well im gonna try to explain what im thinking like a backyard ice mechanic.gas tank lets use a motorcycle as a test bed.gas tank always has a small venturi internally,usually on the top portion that goes out to ambient air.if it gets clogged or flooded the engine will starve from fuel with no air.now i know everyone knows this but.

if you can get a tube inside a resevoir bottle from another bottle with just air to leach or expel it might fix this air in to liquid out menace thats got me dumbfounded.like a 3ml bottle with maybe a 1 ml bottle beside it cap not to tight?feeding into the liquid bottle,i dont think you have to match the liquid to air ratio.ok enough for now,im gonna have to try it i guess...bleeder valves??nope dang it mildred.quote from 1895 my brain haha..

 

[asdaq]

Hey Beast, maybe try a lower nic or back off the voltage a bit!

I did register bleeder valve there, I don't think this needs one, just some proper placement of the parts.

MisterD, I've an idea with the tubing. To balance health concerns and venturi performance, in the connector a small section of 1/16" metal tubing (brass, SS or even aluminum) to act as a tiny spray nozzle and on the other side going into the tank a longer section of plastic tubing. Plastic for the part that sits in the juice as metals leech. Or, scrap all that and even just a decent fitting blunt SS needle?

 

[misterD]

the feeding tubing does not have to be fixed (although it would decrease the possibility of breaking the + conn). we can try different stuff and play with the lengh that goes into the atty and all. i like teflon tubing i posted. it has a high heat resistance and fits perfectly...

 

[asdaq]

Ahh nice, I couldn't actually follow your tubing link, its that good teflon stuff. How's the jb weld curing? I can't wait to hear how it works when more usable!