A was ready to agree with you, but... "We" are not all old enough.
I do not like seeing kids subohming.
Vaping regulation opinions
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I do not like seeing kids subohming.
There is some evidence (not decisive yet) that you may be right.
Not at all
Rather questionable.
Yeap, with 25 days until the laws are implemented we finally got a response, hopefully it leads to results, only time will tell, Just remember guys that who event was set up in ONLY 8 DAYS!!!
Care to support any of those statements with facts?
There is NO evidence that nicotine, in our application, leads to dependence in never-smokers.
If you have evidence to contradict this, please share.
Even when they try to spin it negatively, the data shows that emissions from vapor products do not contain significant levels of anything harmful. Here's one example: http://ww w.treatobacco.net/en/page_528.php
If you have evidence to contradict this, please share.
The last bit, I will admit, takes some interpretation. Going by the CDC survey results, teen vaping rates have gone up over the past few years. In the same time, teen smoking rates have gone down, in a significantly sharper decline than at any previous time. It is not unreasonable to think that teens picking up vaping means that those teens are not picking up smoking.
If you have evidence to contradict this, please share.
Because of my belief (only belief, but...) that large quantities of juice in lungs is not a healthy thing.
Actually, research was so limited that we'd better wait for another 5 years and check with vapers-never smokers.
Not nothing, but (much) less than for smoking. And newer developments in high-volume vaping make even PG-VG suspicious substances.
No, we cannot interpret in that way. Declining in teen smoking started (and was very pronounced) much earlier that vaping became popular. So, it is two different animals.
I'd like to point out that I began my original post with
Which applies to everything I said Including:
Every study I have seen that has dealt with nicotine by itself has shown similar results. Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, share.
and here is what I actually said
Which is not nothing, but much less than for smoking.
Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, share.
and again, here is what I actually said
The preventing smoking takes interpretation, but the continued decline in teen smoking despite the increase in teen vaping definitely points to a lack of "gateway" effect.
There was a very pronounced drop in the 90's, I see a plateau in the 00's and then another sharp drop in the last two years, but that is my interpretation.
Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, share.
The only problem I have with Blu and Vuse is the price. I think they along with some others are over priced for what they deliver and people that may not get online and research better options, may give up on vaping or even tell others it doesn't work or not worth the cost. I see no problems with ads that are done tastefully, as long as they are not making over the top claims and such it's fine. I don't see these ads or any others of the like harming vaping, I also never understood cigarette ads pulled the way they were.
People that are going to smoke or vape are going to do it regardless of ads. The gov. and/or people on certain sides of an argument love to blame things be it ads, video games, movies, books, or the internet. Truth is people are going to do what they are going to do. The only blame of someone doing wrong, is the person doing it. I personally feel in some areas regulation done rationally could benefit people, especially in the juice side. I think we deserve our products to be as safe as possible and as clean as possible. We don't need the FDA to tax it to death to accomplish this though, areas already have Health Dept.'s that inspect food industry and could easily use those standards for juice manufacturing.
If inspection was done by the health dept. the price would not raise dramatically high as the permit is not that expensive. It may force some out of business but it is not too much to ask that they produce a product and/or store a product in a clean environment. I'm pretty sure that most (quality) liquid makers would have no trouble meeting food prep standards. I'm also sure that this could be done with little to no price increase, maybe a $1-$2 a bottle, I can live with that. The problem is the .25 ml increase that some have said, that would put many out of business and do nothing more in the over all safety of the product, when compared to the cheaper alternative of local health dept. inspection.
The end point is regulation has little to nothing to do with safety, it is however a guise being used to tax a product into submission and/or death.
People that are going to smoke or vape are going to do it regardless of ads. The gov. and/or people on certain sides of an argument love to blame things be it ads, video games, movies, books, or the internet. Truth is people are going to do what they are going to do. The only blame of someone doing wrong, is the person doing it. I personally feel in some areas regulation done rationally could benefit people, especially in the juice side. I think we deserve our products to be as safe as possible and as clean as possible. We don't need the FDA to tax it to death to accomplish this though, areas already have Health Dept.'s that inspect food industry and could easily use those standards for juice manufacturing.
If inspection was done by the health dept. the price would not raise dramatically high as the permit is not that expensive. It may force some out of business but it is not too much to ask that they produce a product and/or store a product in a clean environment. I'm pretty sure that most (quality) liquid makers would have no trouble meeting food prep standards. I'm also sure that this could be done with little to no price increase, maybe a $1-$2 a bottle, I can live with that. The problem is the .25 ml increase that some have said, that would put many out of business and do nothing more in the over all safety of the product, when compared to the cheaper alternative of local health dept. inspection.
The end point is regulation has little to nothing to do with safety, it is however a guise being used to tax a product into submission and/or death.
Well said papergoblin. very well said.
Thank you, you know I could be wrong in my opinion and if I am, I'm totally fine being wrong, wouldn't be the first time, lol. I just see it as a rational and fair (to user and manufacturer) option. I have worked in a industry heavily regulated by the gov. and some of the regs. are very reasonable, while others are over the top and serve no purpose other than to raise the price of a product due to increase in overhead. I know there are many that feel we can regulate ourselves, I get their point as they look at it as I do, it will not be reasonable, it will be a vast blanket of fees (taxes, permits, inspections, tests, etc.). Honestly after some pics of a supposed e juice lab and another manufacturer supposedly lying, that does prove we need some type of liability on the manufacturing side. I don't want to eat from a place loaded with vermin and insects, nor do I want my liquid coming out of any place like that. I do feel though that the majority of makers do care about their name, product and customers. They really have no option but to as it is a cut throat business right now and there are too many options for a consumer, to have to buy a junk product.
I stated supposedly on the liquid manufacturers above as they each have the right to their day in court, until then I won't spread a possible rumor or half truth, hence I won't name names. We all have to (as consumers) watch each others backs and use our voices as the industry grows, we need to call out the bad, praise the good, and work together on regulation. We cannot allow the gov. to use blanket laws to regulate the industry, nor can we blanket our industry into a view of rainbows and sunshine. There is a lot of good out there and somethings that need improvement. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays ya'll.
Those people are protesting new laws that have been passed and take effect on some date certain. Probably most vapers in the US won't consider getting active until they are in the same situation. Human nature?
Yeah... That is Truly the Sad Part of All This. That it might take Finalizing FDA Regulations to get People in the Streets Protesting things.
I'd better excuse myself from this discussion. I am not anti-vaping, but prefer people do know what they are doing. We are talking about the same data, our interpretation is quite different. For example I so no plateau in the 00's; you see it. Is it what we shell discuss?I'd like to point out that I began my original post with
Which applies to everything I said Including:
Every study I have seen that has dealt with nicotine by itself has shown similar results. Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, share.
and here is what I actually said
Which is not nothing, but much less than for smoking.
Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, share.
and again, here is what I actually said
The preventing smoking takes interpretation, but the continued decline in teen smoking despite the increase in teen vaping definitely points to a lack of "gateway" effect.
There was a very pronounced drop in the 90's, I see a plateau in the 00's and then another sharp drop in the last two years, but that is my interpretation.
Again, if you have evidence to the contrary, share.
I attended a benefit where there were 400+ people last weekend, in a reasonably populated city.......there was ONE person going outside to smoke. There was ONE person going outside to vape (me). (I monitored this carefully all evening, and there was only one exit from the room and then from the building, and I walked all around it several times at different intervals).
That's 0.005 or 0.5% of the population of that party. I imagine that translates across the larger population similarly.
Hardly something that is going to be in the top of people's minds when they go to vote on stuff....let alone massive protesting in the streets.
It is easy to forget, being on a vaping forum, that most people simply don't vape or smoke.
Just sayin.......
Now you take that room of people and lets say just for the fun of it that they all watch the news, the only thing they've seen on the news about vaping is that it contains higher amounts of formaldehyde than cigarettes, they are assuming that what they are seeing is true, its on the news right? what they aren't doing is going and looking at the research poking a pin in the balloon of lies and watching it pop, we can't expect them to go look at the research if it's not something that affects them so as far as most of the population is concerned vaping is worse than smoking...It is easy to forget, being on a vaping forum, that most people simply don't vape or smoke.
Just sayin.......
Irresponsible news practices are the biggest reason we are seeing these laws passed, we need to focus on explaining to the public that they were lied to, or that the data presented doesn't reflect normal use of vaping products..
I've been thinking of going as far as to put up flyers on the subject just to get the word out to the general population, ask news papers to print the actual facts and ask news stations to apologize (don't think the last 2 will happen...)....
If we don't stand up to fight and spread the truth nobody is going to go out and do it for us.
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That is the one piece, of everything that I said, that is solely MY interpretation. I stated that in the beginning. For everything else that I have said, I have provided links. I could provide more but they are readily available and have been posted on these forums many times. You intended to refute everything that I said, yet provide no evidence to support your assertions. I don't mind discussions, but I expect them to be a two way street.
There were 100 protesters at Queen's Park in Toronto ... out of millions of people who live here.
It is not protesters that get the gov to ease up on the other 420 stuff ... tax revenue does that.
vaping regulations are totally about the same thing ... money
It is not protesters that get the gov to ease up on the other 420 stuff ... tax revenue does that.
vaping regulations are totally about the same thing ... money
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