OK, so it is your assumption that possession may become illegal.
Maybe it is a stretch then to assert that it illegal now when it is not.
In any case, if that justifies not stocking up for you, fair enough.
Who here is not stocking up in preparation for the May 12th, 2020 Deadline?
- Thread starter BigPappa
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
-
- Tags
- ban fda stocking up
- Status
Maybe it is a stretch then to assert that it illegal now when it is not.
In any case, if that justifies not stocking up for you, fair enough.
I would say it is illegal now, but not enforced. Again, can you provide examples of where it is legal to possess something that is illegal on the open market?
Until you provide examples of other products, I don't see it as a stretch. I currently think of it as a non-issue due to absence of enforcement. That will likely be changing very soon (within weeks, or a few months at most).
I am stocking up, but currently don't have what I think is the amount that (low level) dealers have. I would be more concerned with the more I had. I'm pretty sure I would never be worried, unless I was distributing my stash to friends and the circle was bigger than my comfort level.
I think in this moment if a person was selling 30 ml of eliquid to friends and family (all over 21 years old), that it would be a non issue. By May, I think it would be a small issue, but no longer a non-issue. Might take awhile for possession and/or intent to sell is seen as a big deal. I truly hope that never happens. It'll tell me that ANTZ has achieved a significant victory in the war.
Okay, last try. Read this part carefully. It really is simple if you take your time. This is what I said:
"Everyone that stocks up is 100% safe, regardless of how much they stock, or if the government cared enough to track how much they own. Unless they become a seller of illegal products."
Moot point. To be charged with a crime, there has to be a law on the books making it illegal. There are laws against selling some vape products, but currently no law against owning any. And as I said, this hasn't even been proposed by anyone. Ever. You can postulate all you want about that happening at some point, but using that logic, there could one day be a life sentence imposed for having a forum username that contains an 8. But like the former, I wouldn't worry about the latter.
But try this one: There are laws against selling cigarettes to a minor. There are no laws against a minor owning cigarettes, thus none have ever been charged with it.
Name the date, I'll take the bet. And no, it hasn't happened already.
Okay, not what this thread is for. Sorry, everyone. I'm out, as far as this subject goes. Won't beat my head against that wall anymore. I just want to do my part to make it clear to anyone that might (be naive enough to) buy into this, that they don't need to worry about owning vape products.
Last edited:
during the last ammo shortage there were
people that looked ahead n stocked up for personal use.
as soon as others ran out, stock pilers were labeled hoarders n were subject to lots of nastiness.
be advised,
if you are being prudent by making a stash for yourself, you will be called names by the stupid.
people that looked ahead n stocked up for personal use.
as soon as others ran out, stock pilers were labeled hoarders n were subject to lots of nastiness.
be advised,
if you are being prudent by making a stash for yourself, you will be called names by the stupid.
Actually, I am... because I managed to get totally off cigs for months (then "slipped") I had reasons... stress, my living situation, ect, but now those issues have faded and still "cheating" I love my vape (and have some great juices... both pre-made and DIY) just got used to those compounds (besides nicotine) and am addicted again. My main motivation (besides health) to quit was my brand (here in CA) costs $11 a pack. Now I get these damned cheap "cigarillos" 3 for $1 and re-roll them (get 12 rollies) and it makes it easier to "cheat". I will check out that thread...
Well, actually, according to this Wikipedia page, there are plenty of US states that prohibit the possession of tobacco products by minors.
I found that page because I was looking for an article I read about 5 months ago about a kid who got caught with tobacco in school, the cops were called, and they arrested him. I can't seem to find that article now. Could have been a video.
Last edited:
Long thread... trying to read it all.
Sorry folks, but from my point of view, this topic might as well be about drugs. There will be (and have always been) ways to get what you want (need) It's not that hard. And those of us that have been down this road know the "ins and outs" of the game. Know your supplier, know the product, know the risks... same old game. I won't go into details, but I've seen it all (been there, done that) and this is no different.
Sorry folks, but from my point of view, this topic might as well be about drugs. There will be (and have always been) ways to get what you want (need) It's not that hard. And those of us that have been down this road know the "ins and outs" of the game. Know your supplier, know the product, know the risks... same old game. I won't go into details, but I've seen it all (been there, done that) and this is no different.
Well I guess we'll know more in May. In the mean time take care of your needs while everything is legal.
Worthless money doesn't mean the only thing with value would be ammunition. Hard pass on munitions stack. I don't foresee fiat collapsing in my remaining years. If concerned, more benign but valuable materials can be hoarded.
I can't read that last sentence. Can you make it bigger? And more red?
Anyway, I'm pretty sure last go around, I said I highly disagree with 100% safe. You'd probably been better off with the 95 percentile number. I also said the same would apply to all black market operators that are stocking up. In this moment, they are 95% safe, nothing (really) to worry about.
I think the term seller either needs to be eliminated from your point, or understood as only a part of what the crime would be. That being distribution. It would certainly be in interest of all black market operators to give out small free samples of their stuff. And entirely up to them how long they choose to distribute freely. All rules are literally off the table if breaking the, possibly yet to be written, state laws regarding distribution.
The Federal law (or Guideline) is out. All vaping products, that either don't have or haven't filed for a PMTA, are illegal. In this moment, the proper response to that Guideline is, BFD. So what? I'm very much going to vape in the same way I was vaping the day before I read that.
But for all of my vaping time (since 2010), this has been forefront consideration. I came to this site, many years ago, with vocal intent to counter narrative that everything is going to be banned. In some ways, I was definitely wrong about that. Though those discussions were about it would all be banned, for sure, by no later than 2016. Which if Hillary was POTUS, I'd say yes, for sure. 2017 at latest.
Given what Final Guidance clearly says, all the products are illegal. Obviously not all, all. But for sure like 99.999999%. Need that many numbers after the decimal if taking all flavors as individual products into consideration. They are in violation of the Tobacco Control Act. And clearly FDA means business now. Especially after getting their butts handed to them a decade or so ago. This is how ridiculously slow they move, but they are literally coming for it all. They'll fail. But I do think it'll get harsh very soon. Especially harsh, because anti-types will turn propaganda on high gear now. Full speed ahead.
I would say between now and at least August of 2020 that possession will remain a non issue. Which holds true for underground distributors. It very well could be a state legal issue, but enforcement I think will be rare. Depending how propaganda goes, possession could become a really big deal, in terms of need to bust people with lots of product stored. I very much hope it never gets to that point, but I think it will. The kids fight is where the war is at right now, at least from their side. They'll fail in that. Yet, they stand great chance of making huge strides. All of which will impact the adult market. So the adults that applaud busting distributors who get stuff to minors, congratulations on doing those adult vapers in. I find your lack of foresight astounding. Lest anyone doubt it, kids are going to be vaping for a long time.
So, with all that said, I find the assertions you asked that I read for my 8th time, to be laughable. Admittedly, the 100% claim is the most laughable, but the "unless they become a seller" is up there in terms of being funny. At least to me.
Fortunately, my position can say there is a law on the (federal) books that has made all the products illegal. I would certainly think a very logical step from the other side would be to control possession laws around liquid nicotine. Hopefully to the benefit of people that have gallons stored. But for it only to be based on sales, would be a bit dumb. I guess we can only hope they are that dumb. I feel it will be based on distribution, so that anyone giving anything, would be subject to it.
I would say it depends on the vape product. Most of society would never care to understand 90% of the products we enjoy. The liquid nicotine one, I think they get. E-Liquid, they at least partially get. Those two, going forward, could become a bigger deal than they are right now, which is in the territory of non-issue.
To take Final Guidance so lightly is perhaps where we are at odds. I truly see ANTZ propaganda going up even more now, and in ways that are insane, illogical, cruel. Ya know, like the vape THC scandal, that to this moment is still somewhat attributed to the demand to vape nicotine.
I don't know how many times I could say stocking up is not a problem, in my book. I honor all who make that decision. And very glad some of you (or us) will choose to be distributors. But in their book, going forward, I do think we are quickly moving to a point where eLiquid and liquid nic, will have rules regarding possession and distribution. And ANTZ rhetoric will try to make it known that all who possess, are essentially evil. I hope the society we live in is smarter than that.
I looked Up Prohibition and how they handled privately owned liquor.
Prohibition also declared that the possession of alcoholic beverages inside one's own home was legal, so long as it was for private use, and so long as the owner could prove that the alcohol had been acquired before prohibition.Aug 13, 2019
House.gov › history › 8-13-Volstead
Keep your receipts! You just never know when you may need one
Prohibition also declared that the possession of alcoholic beverages inside one's own home was legal, so long as it was for private use, and so long as the owner could prove that the alcohol had been acquired before prohibition.Aug 13, 2019
House.gov › history › 8-13-Volstead
Keep your receipts! You just never know when you may need one
What me worry? I had to start a second folder. All folded in half. Book for perspective.Keep your receipts! You just never know when you may need one
By 2025, at least one state I say will make it illegal for private individuals to possess a certain amount of eLiquid (for personal use). What that amount is, is TBD, but I'd let you consider that parameter in the wager.
I'm willing to go $100 on the bet. PM me or whatever if serious about the wager.
I really should probably wager eLiquid instead, lol.
Illegal to market, not to possess. To "market" something means to offer it for sale. If you've got it in a store, you're marketing it. If you're advertising it for sale on a website, you're marketing it. If you sell it at all, even only by word of mouth in your living room, you're marketing it. But there is absolutely nothing in federal law or regulation that prohibits private possession if the stuff isn't being offered for sale.
The amount of nic privately stashed right now is probably a drop in the bucket compared to current consumption levels. Maybe it could keep the market running for a month. The market might be smaller in the future, but still. I imagine that illegal importation would be the problem they have to deal with in the future. Since that would be a much bigger threat to their plans than the small stashes in private hands, maybe we will slip under the radar. They will have bigger fish to catch than us. And importers would be easier to go after, and produce bigger headlines, than chasing people with a few liters or gallons in their basement.
Can someone anyone really tell me where this conversation is going? Other then to start a back-an-forth heated discussion about who is right and who is wrong about where the future is going to bring when regulations hit. In reality - For those who are stocking up - for whatever reason - they are all going to continue to stock-up. Well until they are sure they have what they think they NEED. AND - Then those who are stocking up for themselves, family & friends are also going to do the same. The same can be said about those who wish to have "Stuff" to resell - be it in the open market/black market. IMHO - This discussion has been beaten to "DEATH" - No One is going to change anyone else mind - nor what they are planning to do for what they feel are their NEEDS. SO - Can't we all agree that this discussion is not really helping anyone - but to try and scare some people. Maybe even start inciting more people to woefully worry. IMHO - It is only someone crying "WOLF" (maybe even be more divisive). More importantly - IMHO - Enough already, start another thread for this discussion/rhetoric and lets move on . . . Just Sayin' . . .
Last edited:
Can someone anyone really tell me where this conversation is going? Other then to start a back-an-forth heated discussion about who is right and who is wrong about what the future is going to bring when regulations hit. For those who are stocking up - for whatever reason - are going to continue to stock-up. AND - Then those who are stocking up for themselves, family & friends are also going to do the same. The same can be said about those who wish to have "Stuff" to resell - be it in the open market/black market. Can't we all agree that this discussion is not really helping anyone - but to try and scare some people. Maybe even start inciting more people to worry. IMHO - It is only someone crying "WOLF". More importantly - IMHO - Enough already, start another thread for this discussion/rhetoric and lets move on . . . Just Sayin' . . .
Yes, my friend, however, is this not the ECF way .. ?? So many threads devolve into Conspiracy Theories, hypothetical innuendo and pure speculation ..
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
