Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Endor]

I know you did not think that through. Most all people willingly place a microphone and camera in their bedroom each night. In fact they carry it on their side or in their pocket, with the included tracking device specifically used for specifying their precise location down to one meter or less at any given moment. But, you knew this already

Touche! Indeed, I did NOT think that far ahead.... nice catch! Oh, uh, crap....

 

[WharfRat1976]

Re: the comments and online articles. People still believe vaping is a tobacco industry product. There are to many of them. And they all have their torches and pitchforks, out for blood.

The only thing that matters is the FDA believes this. In fact, they believe it so much that they just passed a Law about it. LOL

 

[therussellv]

Can someone recap what this means in terms of process for the FDA- i.e. is this the new way of things for sure, or is this what they are going to rule on? (could still be changed etc.)

I'm not quite sure what deeming means at the end of the day.

Process

User/manufacturer/seller
Apply lubricant generously
Bend forward with elbows on table
Be thankful your health is being looked after

FDA
Insert regulation
Inject stupidity
Extract money

Sent from a dark, twisted corner of the back porch, covered in cobwebs and slightly damp.

 

[jlazarus]

If I was an eliquid supplier right now, I'd be preparing a PMTA on unflavored nicotine base. If people decide to add Flavor Art flavorings to that in the privacy of their own homes.... well, until this out of control government puts in their surveillance cameras in your bedroom.

Understood and Agreed - although one question: would an eliquid supplier even need to do that? As long as they are purchasing nic base from a manufacturer that already is approved - it's just a pass through at that point?

I'm assuming the point of the rules is to ensure WYSIWYG - meaning, if the bottle is labeled xx mg nic base, that it truly is xx mg nic base and nothing else.

Based on this train of thought, though, seems like the idea of selling concentrated proprietary flavoring would be out. I suppose they could sell pass through flavors (straight from FA, TFP, etc), and pass through PG and VG. Maybe eliquid shops can make little "kits" of nothing but pass thru components. They could get bulk contracts with flavoring manufacturers to produce tiny little pre-measured vials each individual flavor in a recipe and then sell the kit: "Build your Jon Wayne here - this kit is $199 but makes 300 ML of juice if you just pour exactly what is contained in these little vials into the same container together and shake." ;-) (Of course, then everyone would know the recipe ratio......)

Ugh...this is all making my head hurt. I used to DIY. Ain't got time for that. I suppose I will be making time for that again, though.

 

[Bronze]

The FDA is loaded with liberals who want to tell everybody how they should live.

Did you boycott Chik Fil-a today?

 

[WharfRat1976]

Can someone recap what this means in terms of process for the FDA- i.e. is this the new way of things for sure, or is this what they are going to rule on? (could still be changed etc.)

I'm not quite sure what deeming means at the end of the day.

IT'S PASSED INTO LAW NOW. DONE DEAL. GAME OVER. CHECKMATE. SIONARA. ADIOS.
SO IT IS SAID.
SO IT SHALL BE DONE.
ALL 499 PAGES OF IT.

 

[drysprocket]

Process

User/manufacturer/seller
Apply lubricant generously
Bend forward with elbows on table
Be thankful your health is being looked after

FDA
Insert regulation
Inject stupidity
Extract money

Sent from a dark, twisted corner of the back porch, covered in cobwebs and slightly damp.

hah, ok but to clarify- has this "passed" or is everything they released today just a sign of what they're leaning toward? That's what I'm trying to figure out,

 

[mudmanc4]

Touche! Indeed, I did NOT think that far ahead.... nice catch! Oh, uh, crap....

Haha I knew that would make you smile.
It gets better, think of 'face swap'
Consider this, your face, while staring at the screen, can be placed on anyones body, anywhere in the world, at any given time.
Judge asks: is this not you right here on camera at this location during the illegal 'vape out' or {place anything here}
You: uhhm, well, it looks like me, but honestly judge, you've got the wrong guy I swear it I was not there....

lol

 

[drysprocket]

IT'S PASSED INTO LAW NOW. DONE DEAL. GAME OVER. CHECKMATE. SIONARA. ADIOS.
SO IT IS SAID.
SO IT SHALL BE DONE.
ALL 499 PAGES OF IT.

.....ruh-roh. Ok thanks....I think.

 

[Jester~]

I am trying to wrap my head around this statement:
"The proposed rule was released more than two years ago in April 2014 and the final rule gives the industry two additional years to comply. The industry will have had "plenty of time to submit their applications," says Robin Koval, CEO of the Truth Initiative, an anti-tobacco health group.

However, stores have to comply with the rule in about three months (90 days from its publication May 10), and Zeller says contractors tasked with enforcement will be ready to "hit the ground running" on Day 91."

Does that mean we have only 90 days to stock up on our juice and supplies?

 

[WharfRat1976]

Cigars did not escape either:
Cigar packaging and advertisements are required to display one of six warnings, one of
which is the addictiveness warning. Research indicates that most cigar smokers do inhale some
amount of smoke, even when they do not intend to inhale, and are not aware of doing so (Refs.
32, 33). Even when cigar smokers do not breathe smoke into their lungs, they are still subject to
the addictive effects of nicotine through nicotine absorption (Refs. 32, 34). This is because cigar
smoke dissolves in saliva, allowing the smoker to absorb sufficient nicotine.

 

[Recycled]

It doesn't matter to me. Trump is disruptive. We need disruptive right now. Badly.

Blind disruption is a recipe for disaster. Feel the Bern.

 

[WharfRat1976]

I am trying to wrap my head around this statement:
"The proposed rule was released more than two years ago in April 2014 and the final rule gives the industry two additional years to comply. The industry will have had "plenty of time to submit their applications," says Robin Koval, CEO of the Truth Initiative, an anti-tobacco health group.

However, stores have to comply with the rule in about three months (90 days from its publication May 10), and Zeller says contractors tasked with enforcement will be ready to "hit the ground running" on Day 91."

Does that mean we have only 90 days to stock up on our juice and supplies?

YES...Manufacturers have 2 years plus 30 days to comply BUT, the 30 days is only an extension if they are in process of complying.

So the Vapocolypse basically starts in August this year.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

The FDA is loaded with liberals who want to tell everybody how they should live.

Did you boycott Chik Fil-a today?

No - with all due respect, this has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives. It has to do with $$$$.

 

[aubergine]

Barring some sort of realistically unlikely reversal up the road (sorry, hope I'm wrong, but I'm just not seeing it now), this really does spell the end of the vaping industry as we know it.
It'll take a while, but we'll have whatever garbage the tobacco industry produces, whatever the DIY crowd can assemble in their homes, and an underground that will thrive some but won't be inviting to the millions of ordinary people, including many, many elderly folks, who either won't know how to access it or would be uncomfortable doing so.
There's been something to worry about always on the horizon since I started using ecigs in 2009. Always.
We've all written stuff and signed stuff and kept up with the research and tried to badger our lawmakers, year after year. I did, stopped wanting to talk about it in forums all the time, just quietly kept up and kept on. None of them came through for us adequately, not on either side of the aisle - at best it was an incidental bleep in the corner of the screen for a handful of them. So here it is. Bam.
I don't even feel like ranting, I'm all out of rant. Just flat out dead cold furious, and miserable. Not just for me, for the thousands of lives that could be saved. My Mom's life could have been saved if they'd come out 30 years earlier. My beautiful daughter will probably start smoking again, she's not going to fool with a black market, I know her. All that worry and struggle and obsession and failure and humiliation and stink and sickness, remember? For me that's what this is all about.
Our little miracle.
Filthy old world.

 

[Katmar]

IT'S PASSED INTO LAW NOW. DONE DEAL. GAME OVER. CHECKMATE. SIONARA. ADIOS.
SO IT IS SAID.
SO IT SHALL BE DONE.
ALL 499 PAGES OF IT.

Negativity serves no purpose here. It ain't over until the fat lady sings. There are people working 24/7 to try to get this overturned through Congress, or, at the very least, persuade them to make concessions. It definitely is NOT over.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

Negativity serves no purpose here. It ain't over until the fat lady sings. There are people working 24/7 to try to get this overturned through Congress, or, at the very least, persuade them to make concessions. It definitely is NOT over.

Indeed my friend...it has only just begun.

 

[sonicbomb]

 

[suprtrkr]

In addition to your support for CAASA-- I hope each and all of you support CAASA-- there is now a White House petition to shut off the deeming regs. It probably won't help much, considering the White House we have, but it can't hurt. If you don't get a confirming email, it didn't go through, and if you don't click the link in the email, it doesn't count:

Overturn the FDA's ruling on ecigarette classification as a tobacco product. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government

 

[WharfRat1976]

Back in 2007, from what I've read, the only hardware available were cigalike rechargeable batteries, atomizers and cartridges. There was a small selection of e-liquid flavors around, but not the plethora of them we now enjoy, and most were not as good as what we have now.

The real sticking point was the hardware. The cigalike batteries were around 150-180 mAh, so you had to carry a bunch of them to get through the day. Variable voltage / variable wattage? What are those? Cartridges, for those who are unfamiliar with them, were tubes you fitted onto the ends of atomizers. They were stuffed with aquarium fish-filter foam, into which you dripped maybe 0.3-0.4 ml. of e-liquid. Needless to say, you had to reload the cartridges quite frequently, so you carried at least one bottle of e-liquid with you. Juice delivery with such a system ranged from flooded to dry from drag to drag, and you had little to no control. In general, atomizers lasted about as long as a head in a Vivi Nova, and cleaning one could have an uncertain result. If one popped or got terminally crudded up, you spent $8.00 to $10.00 to replace it. <br /><br />In short, the state-of-the-art vaping experience was somewhat worse than what you get with Blus and similar today.