2nd Edition Cartomizers - Won't sell to US now !!!

[RB37]

geez, you people are literal! hehe
It's my way of justifying the product before it arrives and I make my own discission. Thats all. I am a very "joking, poke poke" type person, guess it is hard to come across that way on a public forum in writing alone... go figure. Yeah, I should know better...
I swear I was just going for humor, unfortunantly a company took the blunt of the humor but it was not personal or business attacks, just a "MAYBE".
And yes, I do not know this business, but I have been in business for 20 years, and I see companies do all sort's of weird things that would make your head spin trying to figure out the "why".

I have ordered from V4L before, they sent me liquid, and even a free box of cartomizers (not that I can use them, I only have 510 stuff). I did not personally like any of their flavors in the least bit, and the "smilin special" was the worst tasting of the bunch. BUT! that does not mean everyone will think that, I know, which is why I said in my first post just because V4L says the product is not good, does not mean I will think it is not good. Yes, kinda apples and oranges, but in my own mind it makes sense (I am a nut case after all )

Anyways, seriously, I will find out when they get here, mine still says processing, for right now I am happy vaping my newly found best liquid and the standard old cartomizers.

 

[Drozd]

I'm kinda in that same boat...the just because V4L says they're not good...doesn't mean they're not good....
I've had V4L products and well I pretty much think their products are not good....so the CE2's might actually be a win...who knows til consumers have them in hand and make the conclusions for themselves...

but so far reports from one guy that has them and tried them does not look promising..

 

[Automaton]

I just can't imagine why on earth V4L would pass up the opportunity to be the only place in the US that sells them if it was a good product.

The only reason I can think of for them turning it away would be if they expected to lose money due to returns and refunds.

It's not like carto's are the safest way to vape in the first place. We all know that. If the CE2 carto's were no better than the current ones, they would probably still sell them. If they were BETTER, they'd be on that like a moth to flame.

From a business perspective, it just doesn't make any sense for them to give up their agreement unless it was actually a bad product.

 

[Quick1]

It's not like carto's are the safest way to vape in the first place. We all know that.

Well... no we don't. I haven't seen any science behind that claim at all but that's a different issue on many different threads .

I guess the hope is that V4L doesn't know what they're talking about and missed the boat on this one. Or that they'll be great for niche usage and just not for mainstream.

Like I said, if they come in over 3.0 ohms I'd like to get a few to experiment with.

 

[WitchWay]

Quick... I have 60 of them coming, not sure how long it will take, I just ordered this morning. I will be happy to send you a couple when they get here if you want.


Happy Vaping!!

 

[Automaton]

Well... no we don't. I haven't seen any science behind that claim at all but that's a different issue on many different threads .

I guess the hope is that V4L doesn't know what they're talking about and missed the boat on this one. Or that they'll be great for niche usage and just not for mainstream.

Like I said, if they come in over 3.0 ohms I'd like to get a few to experiment with.

Well, all you have to do is look up the instances of a carto burning vs. a cart. I know I've already had a couple of cartos that burned either right away, or after only one or two refills.

I use cartos, and I feel the benefits outweigh the risks. But there are risks.

I'd like to try it out too, so I'm not saying you're wrong to want to.

 

[Quick1]

Well, all you have to do is look up the instances of a carto burning vs. a cart. I know I've already had a couple of cartos that burned either right away, or after only one or two refills.

I use cartos, and I feel the benefits outweigh the risks. But there are risks..

Well... again, the science thing... what do you mean by "burned"? Tasted burnt? Looked burnt? was it actually burnt? Was it just melted? ...

Did it actually get hot enough to produce whatever poisonous chemicals you're worried about? Can you name them? or is it just that you don't like the idea of "burnt"? Looking, smelling, tasting "burnt" can be a risk to your enjoyment or vaping satisifaction but that may or may not be the same as a risk to your health (over other forms of vaping).

Like I said, it's definitely off topic for this thread though.

 

[Automaton]

Well... again, the science thing... what do you mean by "burned"? Tasted burnt? Looked burnt? was it actually burnt? Was it just melted? ...

Did it actually get hot enough to produce whatever poisonous chemicals you're worried about? Can you name them? or is it just that you don't like the idea of "burnt"? Looking, smelling, tasting "burnt" can be a risk to your enjoyment or vaping satisifaction but that may or may not be the same as a risk to your health (over other forms of vaping).

Like I said, it's definitely off topic for this thread though.

Actual burn marks and holes upon inspecting the removed filler material.

Breathing in burning stuff is what causes a large part of health risks associated with smoking in the first place. And it doesn't matter what the burning substances is - tobacco, drugs, tea leaves... burning stuff being breathed into your lungs is bad for you. Fact.

I'm not saying let's all stop using cartos - I like cartos. And for the most part, this problem can be avioded, or caught quickly, with proper care and vigilance. But it is a flaw in the design of cartos, which is the entire reason they came up with the CE2's in the first place.

 

[Quick1]

Actual burn marks and holes upon inspecting the removed filler material.

Breathing in burning stuff is what causes a large part of health risks associated with smoking in the first place. And it doesn't matter what the burning substances is - tobacco, drugs, tea leaves... burning stuff being breathed into your lungs is bad for you. Fact.

I guess that's that then.

I'm not saying let's all stop using cartos - I like cartos. And for the most part, this problem can be avioded, or caught quickly, with proper care and vigilance. But it is a flaw in the design of cartos, which is the entire reason they came up with the CE2's in the first place.

They said it was for bacterial concerns.

 

[Automaton]

Well, do you disagree that breathing in carbon monoxide is bad for you?

They also mention the burning taste. Which is caused by actual burning.

 

[Firefly13]

From what i've heard through the grapevine they're not performing as well as the Boge 808 ones so far they're still tweaking them, and there are tonnes of factories over there that will start cloning them as soon as they're available, so the whole 'exclusive to V4L' thing is a bit pointless really in my book. And you never know, the clones might work even better lol.

 

[Quick1]

Well, do you disagree that breathing in carbon monoxide is bad for you?

Sure. Have you ever breathed a significant amount? or was it carbon dioxide by the time you inhaled it? It changes pretty quickly from one to the other when the chamber is vented.

They also mention the burning taste. Which is caused by actual burning.

How could you possibly make this statement? lots of things taste burnt without any combustion having occured. And some of it isn't so bad anyway. Toast? Fried eggs? hamhocks and beans? cooked meat?

I can tell that we aren't going to get anywhere or solve anything here. I think we should just go back to crossing our fingers that the E2 carts have some real or perceived advantages over the E1 carts.

 

[Automaton]

You're actually saying breathing burning stuff isn't bad for you...? Then why make the switch to e-cigs at all?

Is it just on the principal of disagreeing with me that cartos have a design flaw?

I don't get it.

 

[Quick1]

Is it just on the principal of disagreeing with me that cartos have a design flaw?QUOTE]

You made the flat out statement that cartos are not the safest way to vape.

I said I didn't necessarily agree with that because I haven't seen any hard science to support that claim.

You said breathing burnt things (anything) is bad.
You said you looked at your filler and saw burn marks and holes.

I said I really didn't want to continue the discussion here because it was really off topic for this thread.

but... since the E2 issue seems to be on pause until some more people get theirs.

1) Just loudly proclaiming "FACT" or "everybody knows that" doesn't cut it. It's sufficient for urban legends but not what I'd consider convincing.

Do you actually know what your carto filler material is?
Do you know what temperature is required to a) melt it, b) burn it?
Do you know what chemicals it offgasses at what temperatures?
Do you know what chemicals it decomposes to when it actually burns?
Do you know what concentration of those chemicals you're inhaling in PPM and then what the total amount is that you might reasonably inhale?
Do you know if that's any more dangerous than what you inhale cooking breakfast over a gas stove every morning?

I honestly don't know the answers to the above. But those are some of the questions I'd want answers to before joining the chicken little movements all too common here that are usually based on no more than what amounts to ECF wives tales and common misconceptions.

That's all. It's nothing personal.

 

[Automaton]

Regardless of whatever the risks may be, I am sure it is still far safer than smoking. Or at least, my recently absent morning cough seems to think so.

However, I think at any point where you have things actually burning (and they are - I've examined burnt cartos myself), you have a potential health risk.

Like I said, there are ways to avoid, minimize, and catch a carto when it starts to degrade in this way. I'm not being "chicken little" about it. I use them, I recommend them, but at the same time, there is a certain amount of caution and care that one should take when using something with flammable components which are tightly wrapped around a heating element.

The fact I was stating is that burnt material breathed in by cigarettes, as well as virtually any other delivery system that requires burning, have been repeatedly shown to have health risks. That was not about cartos.

Again, if you don't believe that, why switch to e-cigs? If burning stuff isn't harmful, then pure tobacco rollie cigarettes would have no risk of lung cancer, since they contain no additives. But rollie smokers can get lung cancer almost as readily as a tailor smoker.

If you want to end the conversation, I don't see why you keep replying by asking me questions.

 

[Katya]

geez, you people are literal! hehe
It's my way of justifying the product before it arrives and I make my own discission. Thats all. I am a very "joking, poke poke" type person, guess it is hard to come across that way on a public forum in writing alone... go figure. Yeah, I should know better...
I swear I was just going for humor, unfortunantly a company took the blunt of the humor but it was not personal or business attacks, just a "MAYBE".
And yes, I do not know this business, but I have been in business for 20 years, and I see companies do all sort's of weird things that would make your head spin trying to figure out the "why".

RB, the problem with joking like this on a public forum is that it can harm a vandor's reputation and hurt their business, and we don't want to do that.

I had previous communication with the company manufacturing the E2 cartomizers (a long time ago, when Salt first posted the pics of their MiT designs) and decided against ordering from them, because they wouldn't answer any of my questions about the cartos. I wasn't asking for any trade secrets, mind you. Just basic info that any reputable vendor here would disclose without a problem. That was before the ban and the exclusivity clause. Yeah, I even asked them about the "bacterial" issues. They had no clue.

Anyway, any issues I have with cartomizers in general are not of a bacterial kind.

 

[Katya]

Sure. Have you ever breathed a significant amount? or was it carbon dioxide by the time you inhaled it? It changes pretty quickly from one to the other when the chamber is vented.


How could you possibly make this statement? lots of things taste burnt without any combustion having occured. And some of it isn't so bad anyway. Toast? Fried eggs? hamhocks and beans? cooked meat?

Is it just on the principal of disagreeing with me that cartos have a design flaw?QUOTE]

You made the flat out statement that cartos are not the safest way to vape.

I said I didn't necessarily agree with that because I haven't seen any hard science to support that claim.

Guys, we had this very conversation about 600 posts ago, if you read the thread, you'll find the same discussion, almost verbatim.

Just trying to be helpful!

 

[Scottbee]

Guys, we had this very conversation about 600 posts ago, if you read the thread, you'll find the same discusson, almost verbatim.

Just trying to be helpful!

Not this specific thread though...

This one: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-e9-vk-bloog-totem-808-dpv9-smoke51-etc.html

 

[Katya]

Not this specific thread though...

This one: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-e9-vk-bloog-totem-808-dpv9-smoke51-etc.html

Ooops, I'm losing my mind. I don't even know where I'm posting. Sorry!

And Scottbee, that's not the thread, either!

Here:

All my used carto's are TOAST !!

Oh, the good old days!

Enjoy!

 

[WitchWay]

Well I think this thread has run it's course since the restriction is off and they are all available in the US now. Not to mention it's gone way off track now.

Off to terrorize some other part of the forum now


Happy Vaping!!