Are you physically addicted to vaping?

[mostapha]

<really geeky>

I was/am more addicted to the oral fixation/visual aspect of my old/new habit.

That's not the least bit weird.

So, on my way to a Psych degree, I worked in a research lab for like a year. Please spare me the torturing animals bit…I agree with you, I just made my peace with it. Anyway, one of the tried and true ways of "predicting" whether or not a drug is going to be addictive is seeing if it "supports self-administration in animals" (usually rats, mice or some kind of primate……we used mice because monkeys are too dangerous for undergraduates). Basically, you train a mouse to press a lever or stick their nose in a hole with a sensor in it, and reinforce that lever press/nose poke with your drug. Based on how often the animal does it (compared to another level/hole that delivers food or other behaviors or at different "thresholds" for delivering a dose, etc.), you can draw some conclusions.

Nicotine–by itself–doesn't really act like an addictive drug. The animal does it, but the comparisons mentioned above look more like water than the hard-core stimulants that act as the baseline for predicting addiction (one a beverage was named after, the other with a street name the same as the title of a movie with keanu reeves and a bus).

If you pair it with a light flashing upon delivery, the profile changes.

Coincidentally, smokers light cigarettes. And most cig-alike PVs have an LED either on the button or on the end of the battery. Without those lights, there's a chance cigarettes either wouldn't be addictive or would be much less so.

I'm starting to wonder if using PVs without LEDs would make it easier to taper off. Once you're addicted, you get withdrawal of some kind (even if very mild) if you just stop. I don't meant to thread-jack, but the OP raised some interesting questions……mostly how the light affects switching to a PV and subsequent efforts to taper off from nicotine.

Personally, I have no desire whatsoever to taper off. I've been using 11, 18, and 24 mg/mL juice at various points for no real reason except flavors being out of stock in the 18mg/mL variety…which just happened to be the first strength I tried. But all my PVs (not like I have many…3 901 batts and a twist) have an LED of some kind. And I noticed today that I look towards the end of the twist when I fire it, almost expecting a light.

I can't draw any conclusions from myself (confirmation bias) but it'd be interesting if anyone's seen any research on the subject or noticed anything along these lines in themselves……in addition to the OP's question (but if you have to pick one…answer his……I'll start another thread if I get interested enough).

</really geeky>

Has anyone snapped because they couldn't vape?

I've smoked because I couldn't vape, but I'm also only about 2 months in. There came a time when I was down to 1 901 battery that I was swapping it b/t a charger and an atomizer every few minutes: put on the atty, take a couple toots, back on the charger for a while until I wanted another.

It got frustrating. When I considered how much easier it would be to light a cigarette, I ordered more batteries.

And, sadly, the same thing kinda still happens. It's only been a day or so, and I'm probably just playing with my new toy too much, but I ran through 2 crappy, little, knock-off 901 batts (they seem like they're 50 mAh each if the 100 mAh -> 1 Hr thing holds) waiting for my twist to charge this afternoon and ended up doing the charger swap dance again.

So, I'd say yes……I've come close. But it wasn't like I was going to bite anyone's head off……I just really think this has the potential to work long-term, and I don't want to go back to cigarettes in desperation because of minor equipment issues. I think that's where the frustration was coming from more than just nicotine withdrawal, especially considering that I made it days without a smoke (1 PAD normally) at various points while I smoked……a whole week once on a family trip to Colorado……with family that didn't know I smoked. No cravings, no headaches, no irritability……changing your setting really helps. As soon as I stepped off the jetway in Atlanta, paid like $10 at a kiosk for some random brand, smoked one in a lounge and one in the parking lot waiting for my ride…then bought my normal cigarettes from my normal gas station 20 minutes later and threw the rest of the temps away.

So, on the other hand, it's never gotten that bad.

 

[Mr.Mann]

*Great post mos! That is exactly the kind of depth of thought I was hoping would ensue.

*I too used to be as engaged with the little glowing light on the end of my batt--I would literally vape in front of the mirror quite often. I used to vape with my eyes closed just to be amazed at how unfullfiling it was to not be able to see the vapor and glowing light.

*I have experienced addiction first hand and it never really played out like this. That is another reason why I wanted to start this thread--to see if anyone felt the same addiction as to smoking. Now I see some people do (quite a few), but it doesn't play itself out remotely close to how it used to be for me with cigarettes or ________.

*Mos, is there a such thing as a soft addiction?

*When I used the term "infatuated", I may have been just as correct in using the term "obsessed" to describe the not so clear-cut attachment to vaping. To be honest, sometimes I feel this forum is just as much a part of my vaping habit--I guess that is in line with the surroundings aspect that mos was speaking of (triggers and such).

 

[ohai]

Gah! Some of these posts make me want to write and write and write til somebody bans me for flooding!

But I'm half asleep and watching adult swim, so it would all suck.

mostapha- that's really really fascinating stuff, and I wonder if even the color of the light could potentially be a factor. On my fave PVs, the button lights up different colors depending on the battery charge left- green, orange/gold, and red. On my old e-cig, that I ultimately found pretty, but unsatisfactory, the end glowed electric blue when you pressed the button.

While the idea of chromotherapy (using colored lights to treat mood disorders) has been largely discredited as a long term solution, it has been noted that certain colors can have a temporary effect on mood- gentle shades of blue can relax you, red has been noted to reduce scores in students exposed before a test, but also improves reaction time in physical responses- it's an alarm, while green and gold both induce feelings of well being and health.

I've found that I do check the color of my light up button- not every time I press it, but often, and I'm not as happy when it's orange/gold as I am when it's green, and red is instantly alarming to me. Granted, this is probably just because I know what they mean- green is shiny new full batt yay, orange/gold is uh-oh, it's half done, and red is eek where's my pass-through, but I didn't need the manual to know that- it's intuitive- everyone recognizes the meaning behind those colors.

Mr Mann- to your original query:

I'm still addicted to nicotine, both physically and psychologically, but as I've posted before, it's a kinder, gentler addiction. I can go hours without vaping if I'm not in a position to do it and then be surprised when I actually can get to my PV, I'm not madly scrambling for it. I was halfway home today when I suddenly realized I hadn't vaped for hours, and I still wasn't grabbing desperately for my purse to find it. It made me smile. It was a great day to be an ex-smoker.

Then again, when I'm working on a project, trying to stay in the zone, I have to have it in my hand. I just can't focus if I don't- that was the hardest part of not smoking for me- I could not finish anything to my satisfaction without chain-smoking because I could not stay focused- I'd be up and down every five minutes and distracted and annoyed with myself. Vaping fills that need for me perfectly- when I need to chain-vape, I need to chain-vape, and it works.

Mostly though, I just really love it. It's just so fun, and as much as I always enjoyed smoking, I don't ever recall thinking of it as something I did for fun. Vaping is more than the replacement of a habit, it's a new hobby for me, and the newness hasn't worn off in the slightest- I get excited when I find something new to try, even more excited if I try it and love it. I love to experiment with flavors and combinations of flavors, and I can browse e-liquid sites for hours on end.

And then there's ECF, which is such an integral part of what makes vaping so fun in the first place- I'm not ever alone in this. ECF has many many times answered my questions without even making me ask, but if I need to, I feel confident that someone here will come through for me. ECF posters have educated me, made me think, and made me laugh til I cried. And some of you, I've briefly wanted to throw feral cats at. Someday, there will be an app for that, but until then, I can just vape in a another thread til it passes, so it all works out.

 

[mccrji]

I know for a fact that I'm more addicted to the action/oral fixation of vaping than I am to the nicotine. I have been able to cut down my nic levels extremely fast, but continue to vape at the same rate no matter the nic level.

 

[CommaHolly]

Feral Cats????????

 

[ogredog]

Well ya. I only feel a craving when I wake up.

Yes addicted to the habit part.

Addicted to the hobby part.

Addicted to the buying and trying aspect and the gadgets.

Addicted to the semi uniqueness of it ....being a part of something most people aren't and know nothing about

 

[mostapha]

Mos, is there a such thing as a soft addiction?

Kind of. Some addictions are harder/easier to give up in some people than others. It has to do with what drug you're talking about, what kinds of symptoms withdrawal causes, and a lot on level of use. Unfortunately, talking specifics will get some drug names dotted out automatically on this forum……and it is not my intention to break rules……we're talking purely scientific here. But that green thing non-vapers sometimes smoke has a similar withdrawal syndrome to that white, crystaline hardcore stimulant a popular beverage is named for……if you use enough of it: mood swings, weight changes, violence, irritability, etc.. But it takes a lot of use to get there. I'm only aware of a couple studies conducted at–I think–Purdue University that have really found it. They have a "drug house" that's basically a student living organization where the university provides certain drugs (that green thing non-vapers sometimes smoke is one of the big ones) and the cops know what's going on……it is legal(ish) to do these kinds of experiments with the right permits and in some areas, and people who were toking all the time went into a serious withdrawal either when they were forced to stop cold turkey or when they were given a drug that precipitates withdrawal. Based on anecdotal evidence and a lot of other studies……that doesn't really happen in casual users.

Also anecdotally, one of my friends "smokes occasionally", and he actually does. There are times (very rarely) where he'll smoke a pack in 8 hours or have his pipe filled and lit for about the same amount of time in one stretch. He also, in his words, "forgets cigarettes exist" for weeks or months at a time. Cigarette smoking is very situational for him, and I've never seen someone else put out nice cigarettes (Sherman MCDs, Lucky Strikes, Dunhills, etc.) 10 seconds after lighting them because he just decided he didn't want it right then. Depending on the situation, I've watched him do that, and then re-light the same one before he threw it away because the social situation changed ever so slightly.

So, I wouldn't just say there are "soft" and "hard" addictions. Addiction is a combination of physiological effects and behaviors, and there definitely is a continuum.

mostapha-…I wonder if even the color of the light could potentially be a factor.

Not to my knowledge, but Nicotine isn't that interesting of a drug. Most of my personal lab experience was with empathogens/entactogens, stimulants, and hallucinogens. And it's the kind of stuff that is awesome for research scientists but not that interesting for users, even the well-informed ones.

chromotherapy

There are a lot of those kinds of things. The research shows that they don't "treat" things very well except in very specific cases (specifically controlling very bright lights can help with some sleep disorders) but there is an effect on mood based on color. The problem is that it's not universal due to differences in perception and conditioning, and it is very inconsistent between cultures.

What you're getting into with those kinds of things is classical conditioning. People that have grown to associate certain colors with certain moods as a result of repeated exposure to those colors while otherwise feeling those moods creates a situation in which the colors can trigger something resembling that mood……just like Pavlov's dog that was trained to salivate upon hearing a bell ring because Pavlov paired bells with feeding.

As a personal, long-winded, example. I love Red Bull. Never before have I been so convinced that it was possible to sell happy. But I know–because I'm a loser who knows way too much about Psychology–that it's because I started drinking it in circumstances where I was going to be happy: clubs. The smell of it and the taste bring back feelings of ecstasy that come from listening to really loud, pumping dance music in a room filled with other people doing the exact same thing…dancing, having fun, etc.. It's just conditioning. But it's one of the strongest ones I've found in myself. (BTW, I still really want to find a good redbull juice…the 3 I've tried don't come close).

Anyway, more on colors in a sec…

I've found that I do check the color of my light up button[, but]…this is probably just because I know what they mean- green is shiny new full batt yay, orange/gold is uh-oh, it's half done, and red is eek where's my pass-through, but I didn't need the manual to know that- it's intuitive- everyone recognizes the meaning behind those colors.

Not quite. A lot of people have been trained to associate colors with behaviors:

green -> go
yellow/amber -> check your conditions and decide what to do
red -> stop

I'm unaware of any country that uses anything but red, yellow, and green on traffic lights. But the decision for those lights came first, not the conditioning. Simple anecdotal evidence from the same world: red cars are fast……or Italian. Green cars can be fast, but mostly they're just Brittish (if you're into racing and remember back when the car's color denoted the country it came from).

I think you're completely right that you picked that up intuitively, and it seems like your conception of why you associate those colors with those moods is at least plausible. Combine the conditioning that happens with learning to drive with the (possible) conditioning from battery levels being associated both with that previous conditioning and your experience of vaping at different actual battery levels (which might influence the power delivered to the atomizer if it's an unregulated PV) and it makes sense theoretically.

Addicted to the semi uniqueness of it ....being a part of something most people aren't and know nothing about

That might be one of the strongest components of vaping "addiction" or "infatuation".

There's been a lot written about "us vs. them" in terms of brainwashing, product branding, wars, cultures, religions, etc.. One of the easiest examples are the vehement technology wars, exemplified by the mac vs. PC debates on every forum, news site, or help group that has anything to do with computers. Mac users are those idiots that pay too much for the same thing. PC users are those idiots to deal with an inferior experience just to save a buck. People rarely waver from their choice without going through an "epifany" or fighting tooth and nail. And I think the same thing happens here.

If you trace human history back far enough (getting into anthropology and sociology here, not psychology) you get to two basic "us vs. them" conundrums that happened before language: man vs. woman and alive vs. dead. I'm honestly not sure which came first, but alive vs. dead is the easiest to explain. Protohumans, at some point, probably before language really developed, presumably thought something along the lines of "well…i'm still moving and living and he isn't……what's different? oh. he ate those berries. I want to stay like this (alive) because that condition (dead) disturbs me for reasons I can't even explain. I'll avoid those berries like my life depends on it." Eventually, science taught us what protohumans figured out: those berries are poisonous.

It's obviously not as strong as that, though considering that we all know cigarettes will kill you if nothing else does first it could be, but there's a lot of human evolution towards that kind of thinking that will easily create an us vs. them mentality between vapers and smokers. And it's probably stronger for us because we know (to a great degree) that we get to live.

I hope this was interesting and not just long winded. Thanks if you actually paid attention to all of it.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Hey mos, I just sent myself an email of that marvelous post just in case it has a shorter half-life than nicotine. LOL

 

[Kemosabe]

the hobby aspect of vaping is addicting to me, NEVERMIND the nicotine aspect. and nevermind the fact that i am thrilled to not be inhaling toxic substances. when youve got all three of those things rolled into one, forget about it. im never quitting vaping

Yes to both..i smoked for 17 years. As Bob92985 said..vaping gives me everything that i loved but without the bad things ...i have no intention to quit. I consider it as a hobby as well as an addiction.

 

[Kemosabe]

i smoked out of habit and out of addiction. thats the problem with cigarettes- you end up melding addiction with habit.

for example, every morning on my way to work i'd smoke a cigarette. some mornings, id be dying for one, other mornings i'd almost force myself to smoke one just out of habit, or the fact that i THOUGHT i needed one. i would think that i needed one because cigarette breaks are not a thing thats done at my office. i thought "if i dont smoke one now, i'll be pulling my hair out in a few hours".

full-on real-deal nicotine cravings only hit me in the mornings, after meals, and after/during drinks. if none of those things are happening, i could not vape for hours. however, i enjoy feeling the TH so much that i'll vape justr to get that sensation. thats why i coudl never vape 0mg. unless it had some kind of TH, it does nothing for me. sure i like the flavors and sure i love to see clouds. but if it aint gots no TH, i might as well just breathe air... or maybe a candy cigarette!

This is where I was trying to go with these questions. I remember going to crazy lengths to get a cigarette, and also getting quite nasty if I couldn't have one when I wanted one. I wonder how many of us vape out of habit, as opposed to real physical need? I went over ten hours yesterday without vaping (I usually vape 24mg WTA) and I never once even had the thought. When I got home I watched some TV before I decided, "Oh, I would like to taste that one juice." I know everyone is different, but I really wonder how much of a real hold vaping nicotine has on some of us as opposed to smoking it. Has anyone snapped because they couldn't vape? That almost sounds silly.

 

[Kemosabe]

im the complete opposite. i vape WAY more than i smoked. i actually increased my nicotine consumption by switching to vaping. i increased it a LOT. its hard to tell just HOW much, but i know its a lot. i never used to have a problem fallign asleep at night. id fall asleep on the couch every night for petes sake! now that i vape, i could stay up all night. i could count on 1 hand the # of times ive fallen asleep on the couch since ive started vaping. moreover, i need to take melatonin now to fall asleep. i cannot sleep without it due to the nicotine coarsing through my veins. or maybe ive become addicted to melatonin! ARGHHHHH!

I would say yes in a way but not as bad as I was with cigarettes, I can go an hour without vaping and not be in desperate need to get to my device whereas when I was smoking I couldn't go an hour without having a cigarette.

 

[Kemosabe]

excellent points. i will add to the puff vs full cigarette notion. with ciggs, i smoked a full one every time i got a craving, unless soemithing weird came up. thats one of of my theories on how ciggs hooks you in, but anyway...taking a few puffs is so much more beneficial than being "locked in" to a entire cigarette. i never liked wasting anything, and saving a half-smoked cigarette was just nuts. thus, i smoked full ones every time!

I don't think I'm as addicted to the nicotine anymore. I'm on 12mg juice, and I can leave it alone for hours and not have that irritability that I had when I was smoking. I also think because I can theoretically vape anywhere, I'm not as tied to getting that "nic fix" going into a restaurant, movie, event etc. where I won't be able to smoke. I used to smoke on the way to the store, smoke one before entering, smoke one on the way out, and smoke one on the way home. Now I can take a few puffs whenever I want, so I don't HAVE to vape like I HAD to smoke. I can also do it inside, so I don't go outside with 2,3,4 cigarettes and smoke them all, then come in for an hour or two. I can take 4-5 puffs and be good for at least an hour or two.

I do LIKE vaping a lot more than I liked smoking though, so there are times when I'm stressed or having a tough phone conversation that I may chain vape. I think that has more to do with the hand to mouth habit than the nicotine though. I'm going to start experimenting with 6mg and maybe even 0 nic to see if I can.

 

[bodrell]

Yes and yes!

 

[JENerationX]

excellent points. i will add to the puff vs full cigarette notion. with ciggs, i smoked a full one every time i got a craving, unless soemithing weird came up. thats one of of my theories on how ciggs hooks you in, but anyway...taking a few puffs is so much more beneficial than being "locked in" to a entire cigarette. i never liked wasting anything, and saving a half-smoked cigarette was just nuts. thus, i smoked full ones every time!

Yep.... I wouldn't put a cigarette out unless there was some emergency I needed to respond to, or an act of God (torrential downpour anyone?). I also, like you said in a previous post, HAD to smoke that morning cig on the way to work. It didn't matter if I was hungover and hacking a lung from the night before and didn't even want the cigarette. I knew I NEEDED it because I wouldn't be able to get to another for a few hours. Even though there are times when I sit and chain vape now, in general I'm much more relaxed about it. I've never yelled at anyone to leave me alone for 6 minutes because I have to have my vape. LOL

 

[Feuille]

Probably am physically addicted to the process of vaping, as well as psychologically addicted. Obviously the nicotine is a powerful agent in the equation though, and it probably would not have occured to me to take up vaping had I not been addicted to cigarettes. Certainly it is enjoyable enough that a non-smoking me would enjoy it if offered a chance to try it. I still smoke a few cigarettes a week, which I don't especially enjoy, but I think it is a WTA issue, or something to do with the smell. I feel this will be resolved when I find a tobacco flavour similar to the roll ups I used to smoke (Cutters' Choice with liquorice rizla). Before I moved to vaping I was smoking frenetically and had come to find it very ennervating and annoying. Vaping by contrast is soothing and relaxed.

Xx

Xx

 

[Miira]

I think so. If I were to somehow lose my PV, I would immediately run to the store and buy cigarettes. I am working on reducing my nicotine dependency, but I don't know if I'll ever kick the behavioral addiction.

 

[dirfm]

Great thread! I think that I do vape more then I smoked, but as others have stated mentally I am much more relaxed. I am able to put it down for extended periods and it does not really control by behavior like a cigarette did. If I can vape an hour I do, if it is two minutes I am okay with it.

 

[Iffy]

Are you physically addicted to vaping?

 

[codysb05]

I'm going to be honest here, I still smoke cigarettes as well as vape a lot. I smoke when I'm at work and I vape when I get home for the evening. I have been cutting back more and more everyday on cigarettes and I'm almost there but I can say that I definitely am addicted to vaping. When I get home I'm excited to start vaping just as much as I'm excited to light up on my drive to work. I will say that I do love the thrill of checking my mailbox for new vape goods, so yes I'm infatuated.
After reading kemosbabe post I wanted to add in that I also have started taking melatonin since vaping. Strange....

 

[Mr.Mann]

I'm going to be honest here, I still smoke cigarettes as well as vape a lot. I smoke when I'm at work and I vape when I get home for the evening. I have been cutting back more and more everyday on cigarettes and I'm almost there but I can say that I definitely am addicted to vaping. When I get home I'm excited to start vaping just as much as I'm excited to light up on my drive to work. I will say that I do love the thrill of checking my mailbox for new vape goods, so yes I'm infatuated.
After reading kemosbabe post I wanted to add in that I also have started taking melatonin since vaping. Strange....

It's refreshing to read such candor.