Best tobacco for flavor extraction

[Str8vision]

This is good to know from the point of view of theory. I guess what I'm still curious about is hearing what personal experiences people have had with bacteria during the extraction process, and to what extent they feel that was due to sunlight exposure or other factors. Room temperature extraction is probably the simplest, least technically-involved method of doing what we do. And placing the mason jars in sunlight during extraction has so far been a benefit for me, speeding up the brewing process and getting similar benefits as the heat-assisted method without any additional effort (like intense monitoring, taking up kitchen counter space...etc). As far as risks, after upwards of 80 extractions, over the course of 1.5 years, I haven't had any issues with bacteria personally. In fact the only time I felt a batch of extracts came out a little weak on flavor was during last winter when I probably should have given the jars more exposure.

I just wanted to share my experiences for what its worth to potential newbies looking to get into the hobby but looking for the balance of simplicity/efficiency that works for them. Lord knows I was a long-time lurker, and even now I don't give back to the community as much as I probably should.

I have PG based extracts that are over three years old and taste better now than when they were fresh, have not had any problems with bacteria or anything else....so far. I've never had an extract go bad or develop an off flavor during storage. I store extracts in airtight, tinted glass bottles kept inside a large credenza. Still have no idea how long they'll remain viable under these conditions but am determined to find out. Because all extracts are suspended in a bacteriostatic base I seriously doubt bacteria will be their undoing or even an issue, oxidation will likely be the cause of their ultimate demise. While PG and VG are bacteriostatic (prohibiting growth), PGA (ethanol), is actually bactericidal rapidly killing all vegetative forms of bacteria. It's also tuberculocidal, fungicidal, and virucidal. Even so I don't expect PGA extracts to be as long lived as those stored in PG because I believe over time the aggressive nature of ethanol will, itself, distort/modify the tobacco flavor. My oldest PGA based extract is only around 8 months old so I guess time will tell.

I'm glad you are taking the time to share your experiences, concerns and thoughts with others. This forum is a -gold mine- of information for anyone thinking about extracting flavor from tobacco thanks in no small part to people like you who take the time to share and contribute. I too lurked in this forum for many months before finally deciding to join ECF and participate in the discussions. The information I gained from these threads greatly enhanced the quality of my extractions and personal satisfaction with the NETs I produced.

 

[usr/]

I keep my filtered extracts in a cupboard away from sunlight. But the prospect of bacteria forming in the mason jars during maceration is definitely concerning. Has this happened to anyone? I got the idea of placing the jars in direct sunlight from someone on the Cold Maceration of Tobacco thread. There are also several scientific reports that seem to suggest (to my laymen eyes) that PG is quite a potent anti-bacterial. If I'm filling the jars almost to the brim with PG+tobacco mixture, and using new lids...my sense is that it should be OK on bacteria front. Thoughts?

Being a fermenter (of pickles, kraut and kimchi w/o the fish, lol!), and a former home brewer and winemaker, for many years, I guess it's just second nature to avoid a common enemy, 1) Light, 2) Oxidation, 3) Bacteria ( bad bacteria and unsanitary condition). No matter how clean you may have kept the equipment and sterilized your must or wort or brought your alcohol content up to self preserving levels, expose it to light (UV), even indoor light,and it can become fatal to the brew in terms of flavor and odor. With that being said I guess for me it just becomes a best practice scenario. I don't know what effects this common enemy, has on tobacco extracts, other than oxidation. I learned to avoid these issues a long time ago. The only issue I have had with tobacco extracts was a blending Perique I did using Robert McConnell tinned Perique. It was suspect the minute I opened the tin. The wrapper inside was damp and the dampness had leeched in the wrapper surrounding the leaf. It was kind of musty and funky smelling but that is actually characteristic of Perique or so I was told by P&C and from doing some dd on it. I went ahead and extracted it anyway. The final product produced a distinctive ammonia presence. So to remedy the ammonia issue I gave it a vigorous shaking and left it open (but covered with felt filter) to decant for a week or so. The ammonia dissipated but it seemed to become oxidized, sort of flat and dingy. I re-filtered it and put it in a bottle and haven't opened since. I guess I should check on it sometime. This issue was definitely just a sub par tobacco, badly processed. After that I made a McClellands brand Blending Perique and it turned out really good. I don't particularly like it by itself but adds a nice smokey zing to Virginia blends. So if you've been using your process successfully, I certainly wouldn't change it.

 

[Str8vision]

Small world, I bought a tin of McConnell’s "Pure Perique" last year and extracted some. I don't remember it having an off odor but do vividly remember the terrible, rank, strange flavor it produced, it was discarded. Threw the tin and remaining tobacco out as well, zero potential. I've also tried Peter Stokkebye's "311 Perique", P&C's house blending Perique and McClelland's blending Perique, McClelland's was the best in my opinion. Not good for a stand alone flavor but great potential as an accent in a mix.

 

[farisjc]

Yea for me too perique not not really vapable on its own.

On the subject of CD Big and Burley I've changed my mind. Its becoming an enjoyable vape as it ages. At this stage the overall taste is generally burely-esque but there is also an interesting perique and orientals duo going on as well. An odd pairing, but makes it unique. I would say its worth a try.

On another subject, can anyone recommend a good vanilla aromatic (besides Molto Doce)?

 

[Boxster]

Yea for me too perique not not really vapable on its own.

On the subject of CD Big and Burley I've changed my mind. Its becoming an enjoyable vape as it ages. At this stage the overall taste is generally burely-esque but there is also an interesting perique and orientals duo going on as well. An odd pairing, but makes it unique. I would say its worth a try.

On another subject, can anyone recommend a good vanilla aromatic (besides Molto Doce)?

I like Drew Estates 7th Avenue Blonde. Myvapejuice sells it if you want to try it, but for the price of 17ml bottle you can buy a whole tin from Pipes & Cigars.

https://www.myvapejuice.com/product_info.php/cPath/6_22_88/products_id/505

http://www.pipesandcigars.com/pipe-tobacco/70349/drew-estate-7th-avenue-blonde/#p-126899

 

[farisjc]

You know I bought some from MVJ about a year ago but I think they sent me a mislabeled Grand Central instead, because the taste of apricots was so prominent. I just started an extraction of Grand Central last week, so soon I'll be able to test my theory.

I haven't bought commercial nets or artibacco in almost a year now. Sometimes when reading the main NET thread I wonder why so many people are still buying instead of making their own. When I extracted my first batch I thought surely its a matter of time before more people catch on and NET vendors go out of business. But then I remember that at least one area where commercial vendors have an edge is filtering; I guess folks are willing to pay a higher price for a cleaner NET (for me the price would have to come down even lower though, I drip and sub-ohm and just go through so much juice). The finest I am able to filter is 2-3 microns using amazon-bought lab filter paper. Has there been any advances on that front? ie has anyone been able to filter their extracts lower than 2 microns--without the use of expensive equipment? Or is 2 microns effectively the limit for simple gravity-powered filtering?

 

[usr/]

You know I bought some from MVJ about a year ago but I think they sent me a mislabeled Grand Central instead, because the taste of apricots was so prominent. I just started an extraction of Grand Central last week, so soon I'll be able to test my theory.I haven't bought commercial nets or artibacco in almost a year now. Sometimes when reading the main NET thread I wonder why so many people are still buying instead of making their own. When I extracted my first batch I thought surely its a matter of time before more people catch on and NET vendors go out of business. But then I remember that at least one area where commercial vendors have an edge is filtering; I guess folks are willing to pay a higher price for a cleaner NET (for me the price would have to come down even lower though, I drip and sub-ohm and just go through so much juice). The finest I am able to filter is 2-3 microns using amazon-bought lab filter paper. Has there been any advances on that front? ie has anyone been able to filter their extracts lower than 2 microns--without the use of expensive equipment? Or is 2 microns effectively the limit for simple gravity-powered filtering?

I am currently filtering all my recent extracts to 1 micron using these Thomas filters. Filtering to 1 micron using gravity is very do-able. I can't give you an exact number but it's an easy 30 hour drip. But it will pass through if you've extracted with 100% PG. I'm sure an ethanol extract would pass through much quicker. I doubt a VG extract at any level would pass through without pressure or vacuum. I could be wrong about that, though, as I have never tried extracting in VG.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OP2AJO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00

Product Description
Designed for very fine precipitates. Slow filtering speed; 1 micrometer particle retention. High retentivity, which retains very fine crystalline precipitates such as cuprous oxide, lead sulfate, barium sulfate and manganese carbonate. Thickness approximately 0.20mm, 1.5 micrometer pore size.


I do all my filtering in this.

I use felt filter cut to accommodate the gap between the cup and the bottom of the Kuissential Dripper and also cover the top of the funnel with the felt filter and a jar lid to keep a little weight on it just to keep everything well covered. As far as any flavor change, I haven't really noticed any drastic difference. I've only tested a few samples, as they are all still aging at the moment. But man, are they clean! After they've filtered I pour them into a 4oz graduated Anchor beaker to get an exact measurement and then pour into Boston amber glass. When looking at the residual extract left in the beaker in the light I would say the 1 micron as being star bright and the 2 micron as day bright in clarity. Well, it seems to be noticeable, and then I give them a taste test (literally) Just a dip with the finger on the tip of tongue. I have extracts going over a year now and they seem to be holding up very well. Only recently have I dipped back into blending and using them again. Most of which were only filtered with 2.5 micron filters. They all still taste great, some better than others.

 

[farisjc]

thanks for that usr

 

[farisjc]

usr, do you pass your extracts through other, higher-micron filters like 11 micron > 6 micron > 1 micron? Or do you go straight for the 1 micron?

 

[usr/]

usr, do you pass your extracts through other, higher-micron filters like 11 micron > 6 micron > 1 micron? Or do you go straight for the 1 micron?

After separating from rough, I use 1x coffee filter pass then (1x) 2.5 micron pass and either stop there or go to (1x) 1.5 micron pass and stop. Then bottle to age. I'm hoping to get on the ethanol bandwagon real soon. I just have to get all caught up.

 

[yourgurnard]

Have n't done that many extractions yet (tho' 10 of steeping...!)
Fav's so far:-
Gawith Hoggarth's 'Kentucky Nougat' (Black Cav./Gold Virg. wiv toffee/cocoa toppings) Really nice aromatic.
Rattray's 'Dark Fragrant' (Black Cav./Perique)
Smooth Virg./Aged Burley mix (from wholeleaf)
Red Virg. (w/leaf)
Havana (w/leaf)
...& the one that stopped Me still smoking a '1st thing/last thing' roll-up:- 'Old Holborn' (My RYO brand for 30 years!)

 

[Exchaner]

Does anyone know what kind of tobacco leaves are these? Virginia perhaps? I have tried it in a Hookah and It tastes wonderful. Imported from India, available here:

http://www.southsmoke.com/pd-isfahani-premium-tombac-250g.cfm

 

[Dougiestyle]

Red Man Gold pouch chewing tobacco.

 

[Exchaner]

Is Red Man imported from India?

 

[Dougiestyle]

Is Red Man imported from India?

Haha! I see what you did there.

TBH, I dunno where they get their tobacco from. There are obviously sweeteners and possibly flavors present, but I always enjoyed a pinch once in a rare while, even as a smoker (never dipped snuff or the like). The company operates from Kentucky (a tobacco-growing state), so I would assume they grow locally. Golden Blend is a mild flaovr with notes of raisin in the mouth.

 

[Exchaner]

.... The tobacco I mentioned does in fact come from India. Red Man is apparently also Indian, but American-Indian - not from India.

 

[farisjc]

Has anyone tried any tins from the mclelland grand orientals line?

 

[Str8vision]

I haven't that I can remember. I'm currently extracting a "Natural American Spirit" tobacco, the one with Perique added.

 

[yourgurnard]

Had a (long overdue!..) mixing session last night.
Along with refills of Mac Baren's Virg. Flake & H&H Acadian Perique,Borkum Riff's Bourbon Whiskey & Rattray's Dark Fragrant,
Habanna serie D & Philippine Sumatra cigars...I had some new ones!!... Mac Baren 'Old Dark Fired', Dunhill 'Standard Mix.', & Gawith Hoggarth's blending 'baccys, Latakia & Perique. The latter two are gonna be the 'hits' with Me I think.

...Need to add that the 'Old Dark Fired' is lovely!!! I've mixed up 50ml. of each as above, to let sit for a few weeks, but also mixed 10ml. for 'instant gratification'!...the 'ODF' could easily be My ADV as it is....the day after mixing!! Highly Recommended!

 

[Burley Blend]

Just recently ran a few tanks of Red Virginia and an Oriental, plus one other which I will come back to.

The method for each was pretty much the same. I put 10g of tobacco into a canning jar, and covered with 120ml pg/15ml vodka. Left alone in a dark cupboard for six days then heated at 135-140f in my slow cooker with the lid off the jar for 5hrs. The final mix, which had reduced down to about 75ml, was then filtered through a generic coffee filter, then further filtered using 5 micron filter felt (took 30hrs).

I initially tried a wee sample of each in one of my drippers....bloody hell, wow! - Now, I'm no connoisseur by all means, but if you had to pin me down and describe the flavour, I would describe the RV as smooth/slightly woody with a hint of fruit. Simply gorgeous. Looking forward to trying this with other tobacco leaf and even flavour concentrates. Maybe a touch of FA maple syrup? - Like I said before, I'm no connoisseur, so to describe the oriental, I would say it was quite robust although not as full on as an aged burley. Aromatic/deep flavour with what I would say, a slight hint of spice? - Anyhow, it's bloody lovely. I also made up a separate sample of oriental and 2% TFA Almond Amaretto. Its pretty good, but think I need to make it 4% next time. The amounts I used of the concentrates were: Red Virginia 20% and Oriental 25%. While I think the Oriental is about right for my taste, I will probably knock the RV down a couple of percent.

Onto the last one I mixed. It was a Cameroon leaf in which I used the same method as above, however, the amount was 7.8g. This was sent to me with a few grams of ''assorted'' leaf as the place I purchased it were out of stock of another leaf I was after. Mixed at 20% - it is very, very weak and getting hardly any flavour at all. No harm no foul though, it was a freebie after all.

Been spending a lot of time on a few UK/US online pipe and tobacco shops. Just looking at all the different brand names of pipe tobacco. It's enough to make your mouth water!
While I'm buying in quite a bit of leaf - in a lot of cases, I'm not going to be able to gauge the percentages of a particular brand, so will probably end up buying a few tins. Great this N.E.T malarkey.

Edit:
oops, forgot to mention. Although it does take a while to filter - the 5 micron filter felt enables me to get 9-10 ml through before I need a dry burn/new coil.