Reposted for it's intelligence, common sense and sincere thought.
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Reposted for it's intelligence, common sense and sincere thought.
Well stated. In other words, vaping openly BUT respectfully and with common sense.
Interesting, cause I see the two schools as: 1) Timid 2) Reasonable/Respectful. The second is forced to live in a middle due to history, the other lives in places where everyone blows big clouds of vaper that is causing bans in their neck of the woods, and hopes it doesn't happen elsewhere, if the reasonable people would only listen to them.
Being courteous is not being timid. Didn't your mother teach you anything? lol. 
best regards, larry mac
best regards, larry mac
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What was that about misconstruing a point? Where in quote from me, or anyone, did you get 'tell private biz owners what they can allow on their property' from? Point in paragraph you did respond to was when vapers have vaped in public, they get zero complaints from those in line of sight of the vaper. I can quote where this has been said, numerous times, on ECF.
Yet, if fellow vapers, along with ANTZ are pushing for no public vaping, then even if establishment wants to allow it, it might not be, due to misinformation - i.e. everyone that vapes in public blows big clouds of (ahem) smoke in people's faces.
Nope, vape everywhere regardless of misinformation and deceit currently found in the politics of this ongoing issue.
To me, reality is people who have never visited an eCig forum, are vaping in public and are very very likely getting zero complaints. But if they are like me, and ask for permission at times, they will be denied sometimes due to reasons based on misinformation. Property owner doesn't have to give a reason, and can deny just because. But when asked, I am yet to see a property owner who said no for any reason other than rationale based on misinformation. Examples of saying no that would not be based on misinformation include (manager/owner saying):
1 - we don't allow anything in this establishment that could be distracting to our patrons, and includes use of all electronic mobile devices. Just the policy we have chosen to go with and for now we are sticking to that.
2 - I recognize eCigs are a great alternative to smoking and if it were up to me, it'd be allowed, but our headquarters have made a blanket rule that bans them in all of our stores.
I actually think I've encountered the 2nd one once somewhere along the line, though not sure. Between 99% and 100% of the time it is along lines of it looks like a cigarette, and we certainly don't allow those, so we can't allow that eCig thingy.
Being courteous is not being timid. Didn't your mother teach you anything? lol.
best regards, larry mac
In some cases, like never vaping in public, being courteous is being timid.
Well, we're dealing with a public that's been trained to be irritated and offended by smoke, or what appears to be smoke. There's a lot of people running around who do the *cough cough* thing at even the sight of a cigarette, lit or not, and think they have the right to glare, make snotty comments, lecture, etc. Smoking has been so demonized (and rightly so) for so long, you're fighting a very uphill battle to get vapor acceptable in their minds.
I could be wrong, but didn't the airlines ban vaping, not for health risks, but because of non-smoker's reactions?
I can see both sides of this. I really enjoy the freedom to enjoy my addiction in many, many places that were banned to me as a smoker. But, there are also a lot of places where I was glad, even as a smoker, they banned smoking, and I'm used to having periods where I can't indulge. Like in restaurants. It's just going to take time - and probably a lot of time - until the general public is educated and they don't lose their minds or go into Smoke Police mode when they think they see cigarette smoke. And, from what I'm reading, vaping in public seems to be a really good way to educate people.
You are correct. Vaping openly but respectfully and being well educated on what vaping is and is not is the key. Keeping vaping "out of sight" and vaping only in smoking areas sends the exact opposite perception: vaping is the same as smoking and just as bad and dangerous.
I don't recall anyone saying "never vaping in public". I was talking about in a crowded grocery store checkout line.
best regards, larry mac
best regards, larry mac
It wasnt that long ago when smokers were still smoking in groceries stores, book stores, movies, restaurants, in some states. Not seeing a smoker doing it is still new to them. People wouldnt think twice if someon took a drag of vapor there. (Unless they blew a huge invade other peoples personal space),
But in other states, it would not go over so well inside a grocer store. Stealth vaping would have to be done if a person just couldnt wait.
The where factor plays an important factor in our imaginations. We each imagine our own local store that hasnt seen Individual freedom since 1998,, not a new to smoke bans state. Actually, nobody ever smoked inside a store in my area, except at beauty salons, bars, cafes, barbers, mechanics, laundry mats, theaters, motels, ... but clothing, food, music, pharmacy, regular types of stores were off limits. I dont know uf it was rule or moral, but thsts the way it was. I miss those days! People used to congregate, catch up with friends, rest...
Speaking of resting. Restaurants, cafes, banning smoking really slowed down the tourism economy. That was the hilight of a road warriors day, taking in a goid meal and a relaxing smoke. That is totally disturbing.
tapatypo
Yeah, I'll probably get flack for this, but I pretty much stopped going to (sit-down) restaurants when the ban hit my city. Actually, that's not quite true: when the ban first hit Philadelphia, the rest of the state still allowed smoking sections in restaurants. So I'd drive out of town to have a sit-down meal. Then maybe a year later, the rest of the state followed suit.
That's not to say that I never eat out anymore, but if the decision is mine alone I'll opt for take out these days, 9 times out of 10.
Apropos of nothing, I also happen to have been vacationing in Ireland in 2004, right when the ban hit. (As I've come to realize now, Ireland instituted the first nation-wide ban of indoor smoking in the world.) At the time, I viewed the whole thing as a curiosity and not much more, but in retrospect it's kinda fascinating to think about how the restaurant/pub scene changed over the course of my stay there. Many were shocked, others angry, but what's most striking to me as I look back now is that what was a huge huge controversy 9 years ago seems like ancient history now, as if I've lived my whole life in this environment, this culture.
They say that human beings are adaptable to a fault. I guess this is a good example.
So anyway, I guess my point here isn't so much about smoking bans; rather, it's more of a cautionary tale vis-a-vis what could happen to e-cigs if the propagandists get their way. We're not just fighting for the right to vape in public places; we're fighting for an appropriate public perception of e-cigs; we're fighting not to have e-cigs relegated to the same stigma-touched obscurity as cigarettes. Because now that cigarettes have well and truly been vilified, the ANTZ push them ever farther from polite society; they're advocating (and in some cases, have already enacted) absolutely preposterous restrictions upon, and penalties for, smoking.
And most people don't know or care. It is imperative that e-cigs aren't treated the same way.
LOL, nice.
Posts #1, 2, 6, 11, 12, 40, 43, 47, 50, 63, 67, 79, 86, 87, 88, 89 imply to various degrees, that vaping indoors in public/private property is never a good thing (read as rude/disrespectful).
I stopped counting after page 10 of this thread, but feeling confident I could find another half dozen posts or so that imply as much.
And in reviewing these posts (and others), I see vapers having own rules in place for where it is for sure disrespectful to vape, and then explaining that reasoning. I feel a majority of those posts (see above) are doing so based on misinformation or timidness. Like vapers who won't vape around kids. With that position, the person gets to roll out the line of, "well no one really knows what eCigs/vapor does." And yet, in another thread here on ECF, I recall several people posting links to the science of vapor and me looking up and finding data that concludes the risk of second hand vapor to a person (of any age) is essentially zero. Yet, even vapers are operating under an impression that the pregnant lady standing nearby, or the little kid in the room, when exposed to the second hand vapor, may be at risk of some sort of harm, even if it's just a 'little' it's enough and therefore we ought not to do this, or at very least, these vapers will not do it.
But the not so funny thing about the 'personal rules of where it is never a good place to vape' strategy is that we could have (and in all likelihood currently do have) the following scenario working within the vaping community:
- some vapers think vaping in a hospital is never permissible, ya know cause vapor is bad and sick people don't need it
- some vapers think vaping in a school is never permissible, cause won't anyone think of the children?
- some vapers think vaping in malls and grocery stores is bad, because people blow big clouds of vapor and well you know that's common and paints targets on all other vapers, and yadda yadda yadda, vaping will be banned because of them
- some vapers think vaping in a cinema is a bad idea, cause vapor is so darn thick, people won't be able to see the movie they paid to watch
- some vapers think vaping in restaurants is just downright rude, because it smells bad and dag nabbit, I paid good money for this steak
- some vapers think vaping in enclosed spaces, like elevators or essentially anything with 4 walls, is immoral, because vaping looks like smoking and SHS is a known cause of panic attacks
Now, get all these people together in one room where decisions are being made, and suddenly, magically, vaping is actually not good anywhere in public. And that's not coming from ANTZ (per se), but from the vaping community, or the part of the vaping community that calls itself courteous and never ever timid or giving into misinformation about vaping.
"I won't vape in a place where smoking isn't allowed" is found at least 5 times on this thread.
Which is akin to saying, I won't sit in a spot where pooping (on the spot) isn't allowed. Cause some people think when I'm sitting down I could be, well you know, and because I'm courteous/respectful and looking out for the rest of you, I manage to stand a lot of the time. All you people who can't go 3 hours without sitting are painting a big red target on your back and one day when they ban sitting in public, you'll know why.
You're right man. I don't know people in this forum well enough to worry that even a few of them might be extremist or militant. I have no idea what would prompt such a snap judgment on my part.
I guess I'm too stupid to know someone like you was around to take me literally. My fault. The point I was trying to make and obviously ruined was that being militant or extreme isn't helpful in my book. I know I have flaws. I'll try to be less exaggerative and extreme myself if you try to be less of a cannibal. Deal?
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