Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[rosesense]

View attachment 790243
This is when she first got home. She’s settling in nicely now, well onto her way to getting us properly trained. She’s very outgoing and chirps to get our attention. Poor baby doesn’t care much for her diet food, but she has to lose about 3 to 4 pounds. (She’s 18.6 right now).

OMG, I did a double take. She looks exactly like a tortoise shell I had years ago, Lady Donna. I loved that cat. Poor Donna was playing with a plastic bag she found at the top of the stairs, got inside it and in her panic came tumbling down the stairs. It was so funny but she never went near a bag again.

Your new addition is beautiful.

 

[Eskie]

Also, I fell that debit cards dont have as much protection as Credit Cards. You cant stop/dispute payment on debit card transaction quite as easily.

Once again, it depends on the bank. Mine has always been great on that side of things, and has an excellent fraud department. If it happens I've had a replacement card the same day. The primary inconvenience is updating the cc with the Netflix, Spotify, Amazon crowd.

The last time it happened, they noted I had taken money out of a third party atm at the gas station. Their thought was that a skimmer was on it as they're getting smaller and less noticeable. I've tried to stick with my banks atms since then. There are so many ways these scams work.

As to the banks going after the folks, it's a law enforcement issue. They're not out anything as they do not experience any financial loss as it gets passed to the vendor who's stuck with the charge back (assuming it was a completed transaction and not an authorization pending processing for payment). It also usually occurs in different jurisdictions and across state lines so it then becomes a federal issue.

When patterns are identified and there appear to be multiple players in stolen credit card rings will work with LE to assist in helping in prosecution.

Many years ago I had a fake charge on my Amex for a few thousand dollars. It was easy to identify as it was in the days of imprinting a card manually no swipe and digital signature. As I made a legitimate purchase just before it was easy to identify it down to a part time salesperson brought on for the holiday rush season. That did in fact end with an arrest and prosecution. I even agreed to be a witness but it was plead out so I never had to go to court.

 

[DaveP]

Only once have I had my CC compromised. It was right after I paid for something at Target. When I got home the bank called my and advised me that they had reversed the charges based on my location and the places that charges were made. I got a new card Fed EXed the next day and the money was credited back right after I arrived back home from shopping.

They charged gas in Atlanta and made an online charge to Macy's for several hundred dollars. I was 100 miles South at the time. That was the year Target's wireless system was hacked.

 

[stols001]

You know what no one ever talks about? I think it might actually get hacked more... It's worth more at resale than your credit card, actually... Protected health information.

Food for thought. My son actually has lifetime life lock because the first (terrible, and they made him leave) rehab I sent him to got hacked.

The military had the largest hack of PHI to date, I think.

Anna

 

[Brewdawg1181]

Big tobacco not trustworthy? Say it isn't so!
F.D.A. Accuses Juul and Altria of Backing Off Plan to Stop Youth Vaping

 

[zoiDman]

Big tobacco not trustworthy? Say it isn't so!
F.D.A. Accuses Juul and Altria of Backing Off Plan to Stop Youth Vaping

I'm Not exactly sure how Altria buying a Minority share in juul somehow made them Untrustworthy?

 

[Brewdawg1181]

I'm Not exactly sure how Altria buying a Minority share in JUUL somehow made them Untrustworthy?

???
The article isn't about the purchase of the share. The focus is that FDA claims that both Altria and Juul pledged to remove flavor pods from store shelves. And now, in spite of Altria's presumed influence within Juul, they're using their retail space power to assist Juul in doing the opposite.

 

[zoiDman]

???
The article isn't about the purchase of the share. The focus is that FDA claims that both Altria and Juul pledged to remove flavor pods from store shelves. And now, in spite of Altria's presumed influence within Juul, they're using their retail space power to assist Juul in doing the opposite.

As I understand it, Altria pledged to remove it's products until they had received FDA Approval. Has that Changed ?

 

[Rossum]

???
The article isn't about the purchase of the share. The focus is that FDA claims that both Altria and Juul pledged to remove flavor pods from store shelves. And now, in spite of Altria's presumed influence within Juul, they're using their retail space power to assist Juul in doing the opposite.

Let me know when you see the ostensibly "kid-friendly" Mango, Cucumber, or Creme flavors on the shelf space that Altria is sharing with Juul.

Juul pledged to pull those flavors from retail distribution and claim that plan has not changed.

It sounds to me like the FDA is simply miffed that Juul will be expanding from ~90k retail outlets to ~230k as a result of the deal with Altria. I would suppose that that's because the FDA knows darn well that it's not really those ostensibly "kid-friendly" flavors that make Juul appealing.

 

[Brewdawg1181]

As I understand it, Altria pledged to remove it's products until they had received FDA Approval. Has that Changed ?

I might have misunderstood you somehow, but your response sounded like you thought the article was about the purchase, and not the FDA's claim that Altria/Juul were reneging on promises.

Let me know when you see the ostensibly "kid-friendly" Mango, Cucumber, or Creme flavors on the shelf space that Altria is sharing with Juul.

Juul pledged to pull those flavors from retail distribution and claim that plan has not changed.

It sounds to me like the FDA is simply miffed that Juul will be expanding from ~90k retail outlets to ~230k as a result of the deal with Altria. I would suppose that that's because the FDA knows darn well that it's not really those ostensibly "kid-friendly" flavors that make Juul appealing.

Yes, you're right- seems they're miffed about that. I didn't read their specific pledge, but the article states "In October, after meeting with Gottleib, Altria had agreed to stop selling pod based e-cigarettes until it received FDA permission or until the youth problem was otherwise addressed." It seems FDA is "deeming" that Juul is an Altria product, and Altria is stating that Juul is an independent company.

So I don't really know or care about all the details. I'm sure though, that BT isn't trustworthy in many respects. But then, neither is the FDA. I'm not taking sides in this particular issue, as I don't know enough info. I was just posting for informational purposes after reading in the paper this am, so don't read too much into my comment.

 

[zoiDman]

I might have misunderstood you somehow, but your response sounded like you thought the article was about the purchase, and not the FDA's claim that Altria/Juul were reneging on promises.

...

Good, Bad, or Indifferent, Altria's buying into JUUL has Interwoven many of these Issues.

The Long and the Short of it is Gottleib is in the Worst Possible situation. In that He Knows, just like We All know, that he has Very Little Power to Significantly Change the "trajectory" of underage e-Cigarette use short of an All Out Ban.

Which He Doesn't have the Authority to do even if he want to. Which He Doesn't.

But his Funders, who also Know that he can do little, are Demanding that he Stop this Epidemic. And the Media is making him a Poster Boy in all this saying that he Isn't Doing Enough.

 

[englishmick]

Stop the Epidemic

Gotty might need to build a huge enormous powerful wall around the convenience stores. And make the kids pay for it.

 

[Rossum]

Stop the Epidemic

... and watch youth smoking rates climb again.

I suspect Gottlieb knows this too and would like to avoid it.

 

[Eskie]

The reality is no one, the public, or the FDA trust BT. As soon as Juul took that Altria investment, regardless of the minority position and the lack of control of Juul by Altria, Juul itself was tainted with $16 Billion of BT money. As we constantly say, look where the money comes from. We're not the only ones who say it. Juul took BT money. Everything they do from this point on will be seen with that shadow on its actions.

Altria having agreed to not sell pod systems pending FDA approval can certainly appear to he making an end run around that agreement by this investment. And that really is what it is. A way for Altria to get pods onto its shelf space without technically reneging on that agreement (which I was unaware they made). Juul saw a ton a money and muscle with this deal. In doing so they threw their business into the BT cloud of mistrust. They had to have known that but decided to go for the money on the table while it was still there.

That deal was never a positive for vaping. In fact it was and is a negative as the face of vaping in the US is Juul, which is now BT tainted, for right or wrong.

No one hands over 16 Billion for a minority position in a single product company that for the same money you could make your own version and crush them with that sort of clout of established distribution and advertising budget. But if they told the FDA they wouldn't bring anything to market, this was a great back door loophole to jump through. I guess the stakeholders in Juul decided to just take the devil's money and invest it elsewhere. If vaping stays and Juul remains successful it's free cash. If vaping is crushed in the US at least they walked away with money in their pocket.

Not much comfort for vapers.

 

[zoiDman]

...

No one hands over 16 Billion for a minority position in a single product company that for the same money you could make your own version and crush them with that sort of clout of established distribution and advertising budget. But if they told the FDA they wouldn't bring anything to market, this was a great back door loophole to jump through. I guess the stakeholders in Juul decided to just take the devil's money and invest it elsewhere. If vaping stays and Juul remains successful it's free cash. If vaping is crushed in the US at least they walked away with money in their pocket.

Not much comfort for vapers.

Maybe not in a Free Market. Or even in a Quasi-Free Regulated Market. But in this Artificial Market that the FDA has created via the PMTA process?

If you were BT, what would you do? Stand on the Sidelines and wait for 8-8-22 to roll around with a Product you Can't Change that Isn't selling well?

When Scott extended the PMTA Drop Dead Deadline, he threw a Huge Rusty Wrench into BT's plans. So they made New Plans.

 

[newyork13]

Agreed. Not only are the protections still greater with a cc, but more importantly: when the card is used fraudulently, on a debit card it's your money that's gone. And you're at the mercy of the bank, and their policies to access it again. On a cc, it's the card issuer's money that's gone - so you still have your own money waiting for it to be resolved.

Absolutely right. There are legal protections against fraud when you use a CC card. With a debit card less so, not to mention they have access to whatever is in your account until you discover the fraud. Then you gotta work on getting it back home.
What's more, I won't have a debit card because it's essentially unprotected. I've always insisted to my bank that I ONLY want an ATM card, which can't be used without a PIN.

 

[englishmick]

... and watch youth smoking rates climb again.

I suspect Gottlieb knows this too and would like to avoid it.

That would blow their cover a bit I guess. For a while they would be able to say that the new smokers were kids who got hooked on nicotine by Juuls. But that would only hold water for a couple of years until a class came up smoking who had never been exposed to Juuls.

What a dilemma for the poor guy. People yelling at him from every direction and not being able to satisfy any of them.

 

[Bronze]

As happens frequently among competitors in the corporate world, if you can’t beat ‘em, buy ‘em.

 

[CMD-Ky]

As happens frequently among competitors in the corporate world, if you can’t beat ‘em, buy ‘em.

And if you can't buy 'em, buy a regulator and regulate them out of existance.

 

[Vape Magoo]

I live off of my CC as much as I can. Cash back, never pay interest, credited immediately on disputes, no cross border fees, if they are suspicious they text me to CONFIRM. Rental car needs no extra insurance, CC covers it. Auto pay in full so I can't forget. If you can't pay your CC in full you're living outside your means or you're out of work with no backup cash, if the latter, spend, spend, spend before they catch on. $10,000 or $250,000, bankruptcy is bankruptcy.